RAMS FANS UNITED - NEWS FLASH
GET YOUR PIKCS IN:

RFU Suicide Game

RFU Pick 5

RFU Fantasy Football (Set Your Lineup)
CLOSE
81 posts
  • 7 / 9
  • 1
  • 7
  • 9
 by moklerman
1 day ago
 Total posts:   5574  
 Joined:  Apr 17 2015
United States of America   Bakersfield, CA
Hall of Fame

laram wrote:It’s okay zn the Internet is like alcohol it gives people courage they would never have sober.
Image

 by PARAM
1 day ago
 Total posts:   4126  
 Joined:  Jul 15 2015
Barbados   Just far enough North of Philadelphia
Superstar

laram wrote:It’s okay zn the Internet is like alcohol it gives people courage they would never have sober.


It's not about courage (boy are you confused), it's about common sense. But I'm impressed with the manly undertones in your comment. :roll2:

DieterBrock wrote:Not sure where you get your data. 11 current HC were promoted from OC, 8 were promoted from DC, 11 were HC in college or pros and 2 were ST coaches.


That doesn't seem like a "large majority" of former OC's.

The argument is: Minority players in the NFL are over 90%. The minorities in NFL coaching is under 10%. That's unacceptable.

So what percentage is acceptable? Since "most" head coaches come out of the OC, DC or college HC ranks, the minority pool to choose from is rather small.

The perception seems to be, if you can play NFL football, you can coach NFL football and I'm not sure that is accurate. If you go through each team's roster of assistant coaches (all; right down to the quality control guys) you will see on many resumes "no pro playing experience". To me that suggests NCAA players not good enough to make it to the NFL, go into coaching at the lower levels and hone those skills. Perhaps minorities aren't a large percentage of that group?

Does anybody really think a Rule is going to change this problem of the lack of minorities in NFL coaching ranks? The Rooney Rule been around since 2003 and what has it done? Is that rule responsible for Hue Jackson being a head coach? Mike Singletary? Tony Dungy? Jim Caldwell? I doubt it. And now they want to tweak it? NFL owners (and GMs) want to win. What's ironic is MLB has 5 minority managers and they have no Rooney Rule.

 by /zn/
1 day ago
 Total posts:   4726  
 Joined:  Jun 28 2015
United States of America   Maine
Superstar

PARAM wrote:That doesn't seem like a "large majority" of former OC's.


Reposting this again:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... or/604771/

JANUARY 11, 2020

Since 2009, nearly 40 percent of head coaches hired in the NFL were offensive coordinators prior to their appointment. (Less frequently, teams hired the former coaches of other NFL teams, NFL defensive coordinators, and college head coaches.) Of course, during that same span, 91 percent of those hired as offensive coordinators—essentially, as the architects of their team’s efforts on that side of the ball—were white.

As of now, there are only two black offensive coordinators in the NFL—the Buccaneers’ Byron Leftwich and the Kansas City Chiefs’ Eric Bieniemy.

 by dieterbrock
1 day ago
 Total posts:   11196  
 Joined:  Mar 31 2015
United States of America   New Jersey
Hall of Fame

/zn/ wrote:Reposting this again:

Reposting this again:
dieterbrock wrote:Not sure where you get your data. 11 current HC were promoted from OC, 8 were promoted from DC, 11 were HC in college or pro, and 2 were ST coaches.

 by PARAM
1 day ago
 Total posts:   4126  
 Joined:  Jul 15 2015
Barbados   Just far enough North of Philadelphia
Superstar

dieterbrock wrote:Reposting this again:


I think what is being said is OC's and DC's get HC opportunities as a normal progression of ascension. There are some who skip over that step (Harbaugh, Judge) but for the most part, teams firing their head coach look to the latest "great defense" or "great offense" and hire the guy in charge of them. The "problem" is, few of the OC's are black, so fewer blacks get the opportunity to be a head coach. What I'm curious about is how do minorities feel when they get an interview ONLY because of the Rooney Rule yet don't get the job? If I were a minority, I would be disappointed at the lack of opportunities but I'd be apoplectic if I discovered I were just a token interview because of some rule. In some ways it seems the NFL has approached minority hirings in the same way they approached head injuries, concussions and CTE. Deny, deflect and design something that gives the appearance they care.

 by dieterbrock
1 day ago
 Total posts:   11196  
 Joined:  Mar 31 2015
United States of America   New Jersey
Hall of Fame

PARAM wrote:I think what is being said is OC's and DC's get HC opportunities as a normal progression of ascension. There are some who skip over that step (Harbaugh, Judge) but for the most part, teams firing their head coach look to the latest "great defense" or "great offense" and hire the guy in charge of them. The "problem" is, few of the OC's are black, so fewer blacks get the opportunity to be a head coach. What I'm curious about is how do minorities feel when they get an interview ONLY because of the Rooney Rule yet don't get the job? If I were a minority, I would be disappointed at the lack of opportunities but I'd be apoplectic if I discovered I were just a token interview because of some rule. In some ways it seems the NFL has approached minority hirings in the same way they approached head injuries, concussions and CTE. Deny, deflect and design something that gives the appearance they care.

I get that the purpose of the article was bait. And nothing is more relevant than what is current. The current rage is hiring "the next great offensive mind". So who's climbing the ladder on the offense side, and why or why not?
I look at the Joe Judge hire, and see all the low level jobs he took on his path and ask, how many athletes are willing to walk that path? Get paid the peanuts a low level assistant gets paid?
I'm in on thinking Bieniemy deserves a shot at a HC gig, but how do we know how he interviews? Why is the first thought discrimination?
And why aren't we concerned with why there aren't Asian coaches? More Hispanic coaches? We say minority, but focus on one.

 by PARAM
1 day ago
 Total posts:   4126  
 Joined:  Jul 15 2015
Barbados   Just far enough North of Philadelphia
Superstar

dieterbrock wrote:I get that the purpose of the article was bait. And nothing is more relevant than what is current. The current rage is hiring "the next great offensive mind". So who's climbing the ladder on the offense side, and why or why not?
I look at the Joe Judge hire, and see all the low level jobs he took on his path and ask, how many athletes are willing to walk that path? Get paid the peanuts a low level assistant gets paid?
I'm in on thinking Bieniemy deserves a shot at a HC gig, but how do we know how he interviews? Why is the first thought discrimination?
And why aren't we concerned with why there aren't Asian coaches? More Hispanic coaches? We say minority, but focus on one.


I hear you. Why do they jump right to discrimination? Bienemy? I don't know if he deserves a shot or not. Is that KC offense a result of Bienemy or Andy Reid? But coordinators are the guys usually hired.

From 2015-2020 there were 37 coaching changes. Here's how they stack up.

Former NFL head coaches (10)
Special Teams (1)
College Coaches (1)
Defensive Coordinators (10)
Offensive Coordinators (15)

Here's an interesting stat on that. Of first time head coaches hired from 2015-2018, 10 still hold the job. 6 are former offensive coordinators, 4 are former defensive coordinators.

Only 5 teams have head coaches who were hired prior to 2015. Patriots, Seahawks, Chiefs, Vikings and Texans. Of the 23 coaches hired between 2015 and 2018, 12 have been fired.

 by AvengerRam
1 day ago
 Total posts:   3541  
 Joined:  Oct 03 2017
Israel   Longwood, FL
Superstar

The OC/DC thing is really kind of out there, if you give it some thought.

Let's start with the premise that owners/GMs are showing a preference for hiring "offensive minds" over "defensive minds" for HC spots.

Why is that?

Is it because they look at the pools of offensive and defensive coaches, see a "whiter" pool on the offensive side of the ball, and then use this distinction as a pretext to hide a discriminatory motive? Does anyone think that?

No... I'd say the logical reason is that the game has become more offense-oriented.

The next question is... why (assuming it there is a statistically significant disparity) are there more black coaches on the defensive side of the ball? I have seen no evidence whatsoever that would suggest that discrimination has anything to do with those ratios.

As I stated before, I deal in evidence. I'm not seeing the evidence of intentional discrimination on a league-wide, institutional level. That does not mean that there can't be individual instances in which bias is a factor, but that's a far cry from the global problem that some in the media are asserting is present.

 by rams74
1 day ago
 Total posts:   803  
 Joined:  Nov 19 2015
Italy   Glendale, Arizona
Veteran

PARAM wrote:What I'm curious about is how do minorities feel when they get an interview ONLY because of the Rooney Rule yet don't get the job? If I were a minority, I would be disappointed at the lack of opportunities but I'd be apoplectic if I discovered I were just a token interview because of some rule.


The Cowboys were accused of this sort of thing when they interviewed Marvin Lewis as their only other candidate other than Mike McCarthy. Yet when asked about this, Lewis said he didn't feel like that was the case at all. He felt like he was treated fairly, and had nothing but good things to say about the Cowboys about it.

I also remember another occasion a few years ago (though I don't remember the specific coach), when an assistant coach had a HC interview with another team. He was asked how he felt being the Rooney Rule candidate, and he responded that he was appreciative of the opportunity because it gave him the chance to interview, which he felt was beneficial to him from an experience standpoint, particularly if he were to get other opportunities later on.

I don't know how any others feel about it, just those two.

 by /zn/
1 day ago
 Total posts:   4726  
 Joined:  Jun 28 2015
United States of America   Maine
Superstar

PARAM wrote:What I'm curious about is how do minorities feel when they get an interview ONLY because of the Rooney Rule yet don't get the job? If I were a minority, I would be disappointed at the lack of opportunities but I'd be apoplectic if I discovered I were just a token interview because of some rule.


It's not as if that hasn't been addressed before. You don't have to speculate how you would feel as a minority in this scenario--it comes up.

People have spoken out about the Rooney rule before this season. They have said it helps to get experience interviewing regardless of the reason. And the point of the Rooney rule is to get teams to interview guys who would not ordinarily be interviewed, which gives them a chance. The Tomlin hiring speaks to that. Tomlin was not a priority with the Steelers UNTIL they interviewed him for the job, and he unexpectedly completely impressed them.

Word used to be it worked.

https://www.newsweek.com/rooney-rule-nf ... es-1481245

It did not take long for the Rooney Rule to make its impact felt. Following its implementation, the percentage of head coaches from a minority background rose to as high as 22 percent, compared to six percent before the rule was introduced.


That of course is old though. Now the environment is different, and so according to Rooney himself the league will re-evaluate the Rooney rule and update it.

  • 7 / 9
  • 1
  • 7
  • 9
81 posts Jan 17 2020