[BuiltRamTough]

There's a simple solution to our QB dilemma.

Sit tight, draft Cook at 15 and call it a day

[PARAM]

]There's also, Manziel, Manuel, Griffen, Weeden, Locker, Gabbert, Ponder and the biggest joke of all TEBOW.

.

None of which were considered the "cant miss" type prospect QB that Wentz/Goff are. All of them were reach picks which is where I see Lynch fitting in

Few are considered "can't miss". Many are considered "can't resist...cause they might be great". Like Manziel and Griffen, Who can remember from year to year whether they were considered "can't miss" or "potential franchise QB" (that's my favorite) or "best in the draft". But you can get a good one in the 2nd or 3rd round, without missing on a non-QB in the first who can really help your team...now. The bottom line is it's a 50/50 bet with most of these guys and in the Rams situation, they'd have to give up a lot to move up to get one of the two who are "can't miss" or "potential franchise QB" or "best in the draft". If one of them drops to our slot or near our slot, great. If they don't take the best WR or DE or whomever.

[/zn/]

]There's also, Manziel, Manuel, Griffen, Weeden, Locker, Gabbert, Ponder and the biggest joke of all TEBOW.

.

None of which were considered the "cant miss" type prospect QB that Wentz/Goff are. All of them were reach picks which is where I see Lynch fitting in

Few are considered "can't miss". Many are considered "can't resist...cause they might be great". Like Manziel and Griffen, Who can remember from year to year whether they were considered "can't miss" or "potential franchise QB" (that's my favorite) or "best in the draft". But you can get a good one in the 2nd or 3rd round, without missing on a non-QB in the first who can really help your team...now. The bottom line is it's a 50/50 bet with most of these guys and in the Rams situation, they'd have to give up a lot to move up to get one of the two who are "can't miss" or "potential franchise QB" or "best in the draft". If one of them drops to our slot or near our slot, great. If they don't take the best WR or DE or whomever.

It is true that if you get a qb in rounds 2 or 3 it it a big deal. They say this draft has more developmental 2nd through maybe 4th round prospects at qb than most drafts do. Maybe this draft is an exception, then, but historically the numbers aren't good.

How many qb "hits" in the 2nd and 3rd rounds in the last 10 years (ending with 2013 so we can judge)?

So, 2nd/3rd round qbs from 2004-2013

Out of 26 taken, the hits I count are Schaub (in spite of crashing), Wilson, Dalton, and maybe Osweiler.

Kaepernick and Foles crashed though they were okay for a bit. I will count them anyway...a couple of years of production just becomes the minimal standard, making it a generous count.

All the rest, if they survived in the league at all, are back-ups. To put it more bluntly...they're back-up caliber qbs.

That's 6 out of 26. 23%.

...

[OldSchool]

Come on, guys. This isn't that hard.

Ravens pick
#6 = 1600

Rams picks
#15 = 1050
#43 = 470 (2nd rounder)
#110 = 74 (4th rounder)
total = 1594

That's it. No extra 2nd rounder. Not even a extra 3rd rounder. Just our 1st, 2nd, and 4th is fair compensation to move up to #6.

Now the Rams may decide they want to keep the 4th rounder this year and give them a 3rd rounder next year. That's how this thing works, you always move up a round if you wait a year for the pick.

And if the Niners are offering those same round picks which will all be more points are you going to up your offer or let him go to the Niners? That's where we're talking about it might take more/higher picks. Or the Ravens at 6 are in love with a guy and don't think they can get him at 15 we have to convince them to move down. We all know at face value those picks work on the trade chart that's not a question.

No team ever gives up picks significantly beyond the trade table to get to #6. We aren't talking about QBs like Elway or Luck. These QBs have major warts, I wouldn't give away the farm for any of them.

Show me the last time someone moved up to the 6th spot and gave up signifcantly beyond the trade table. You won't find it because it's never happened.

haha ok you got it nobody ever over pays to move up to pick a QB. You realize you're taking a discussion on a hypothetical situation and claiming it's impossible won't and can't happen. I don't even know if anybody has ever traded up to the #6 spot in NFL history and I don't care if they have or haven't. My point was in this draft that is the spot most teams are looking at or is rumored to be a spot to trade into if a QB falls.

[Elvis]

Whether or not a QB is a franchise QB depends as much on the franchise as it does the QB...

[/zn/]

None of which were considered the "cant miss" type prospect QB that Wentz/Goff are. All of them were reach picks which is where I see Lynch fitting in

Few are considered "can't miss". Many are considered "can't resist...cause they might be great". Like Manziel and Griffen, Who can remember from year to year whether they were considered "can't miss" or "potential franchise QB" (that's my favorite) or "best in the draft". But you can get a good one in the 2nd or 3rd round, without missing on a non-QB in the first who can really help your team...now. The bottom line is it's a 50/50 bet with most of these guys and in the Rams situation, they'd have to give up a lot to move up to get one of the two who are "can't miss" or "potential franchise QB" or "best in the draft". If one of them drops to our slot or near our slot, great. If they don't take the best WR or DE or whomever.

It is true that if you get a qb in rounds 2 or 3 it it a big deal. They say this draft has more developmental 2nd through maybe 4th round prospects at qb than most drafts do. Maybe this draft is an exception, then, but historically the numbers aren't good.

How many qb "hits" in the 2nd and 3rd rounds in the last 10 years (ending with 2013 so we can judge)?

So, 2nd/3rd round qbs from 2004-2013

Out of 26 taken, the hits I count are Schaub (in spite of crashing), Wilson, Dalton, and maybe Osweiler.

Kaepernick and Foles crashed though they were okay for a bit. I will count them anyway...a couple of years of production just becomes the minimal standard, making it a generous count.

All the rest, if they survived in the league at all, are back-ups. To put it more bluntly...they're back-up caliber qbs.

That's 6 out of 26. 23%.

...

Fwiw to offer a more complete picture, here's the 1st round across roughly the same period. Naturally and obviously, I found a much higher hit rate for the 1st round.

I did 2004-2014, which (with a year added) corresponds to the years for my 2nd and 3rd round qb search.

From 2004 to 2014, out of 31 1st round qbs, I got 15 hits: Rivers, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Eli, Ryan, Cutler, Newton, Flacco, Smith, Stafford, Luck, Tannenhill, Bradford, Bridgewater, and Bortles.

Granted we really don't know about a couple of those yet. But either way,doing these years brings it to 48.4%.

..

[/zn/]

Whether or not a QB is a franchise QB depends as much on the franchise as it does the QB...

Depends on what you mean. If you mean the qb is on a team that gets regular winning records, then, yeah, obviously the coach matters. But just in terms of the caliber of qb? I actually think it's the other way around. If the franchise gets a franchise qb everything else is easier and the coach has more of a chance though it's no guarantee.

For example there have been coaching changes in places like Detroit, SD, and NY, but regardless of that, everyone knows those places have franchise qbs in Stafford, Rivers, and Eli.

On the other hand there are coaches who don't manage to get going because they don't have a qb.

[Hacksaw_64]

I'm staying put, drafting Paxton Lynch at #15 and laughing. I just stole my franchise QB. Don't get suckered by "NFL ready". All rookie QB's these days are projects. No way in hell do I trade two number ones and a 2 to trade up to #6 for Goff.

[Elvis]

Whether or not a QB is a franchise QB depends as much on the franchise as it does the QB...

Depends on what you mean. If you mean the qb is on a team that gets regular winning records, then, yeah, obviously the coach matters. But just in terms of the caliber of qb? I actually think it's the other way around. If the franchise gets a franchise qb everything else is easier and the coach has more of a chance though it's no guarantee.

For example there have been coaching changes in places like Detroit, SD, and NY, but regardless of that, everyone knows those places have franchise qbs in Stafford, Rivers, and Eli.

On the other hand there are coaches who don't manage to get going because they don't have a qb.

I think coaching is huge.

We're much better coached defensively than we are offensively. You see it on the field. You see it in the development of our young players.

If the Rams had drafted Bortles, Bridgewater or Carr in 2012, i think there's an excellent chance we'd be talking about them being busts going into 2016...

[/zn/]

If the Rams had drafted Bortles, Bridgewater or Carr in 2012, i think there's an excellent chance we'd be talking about them being busts going into 2016...

Yeah see I don't agree with that. I have a completely different view. I think what has hurt the offense more than anything else is injuries, mostly to the OL but also to Bradford and, to a lesser extent, Quick and Bailey. (Foles, I think, just melted down.)

I think this offense has already shown it can be effective when they had what they needed, which means 3 things: a relatively healthy and NOT too young OL, a starting caliber qb (who has not melted down), and a running threat. They have actually done well the few times since 2012 they had all 3 of those things.

I mean, it's going to be a ball control and play action offense. But that's fine with me. When they stop getting massively injured they will be okay on offense. I personally have no worries there.

.