[snackdaddy]

If they don't think they have the solution to their problems on the current roster then they have to look to free agency. With limited cap space. The draft is nice for building something for the future. But thinking they can find a couple rookies to solve their current dilemma is a fool's errand. Even first rounders aren't a sure thing. We know that all too well with guys like Greg Robinson and Jason Smith.

[PARAM]

If they don't think they have the solution to their problems on the current roster then they have to look to free agency. With limited cap space. The draft is nice for building something for the future. But thinking they can find a couple rookies to solve their current dilemma is a fool's errand. Even first rounders aren't a sure thing. We know that all too well with guys like Greg Robinson and Jason Smith.

For sure!!!! Very little cap space and 2 free agents off their roster. The question is do they want Whitworth and Blythe back in 2020? They have a group of young lineman who gained valuable experience in 2019. Like many fans have said, nobody expected the young guys (Noteboom, Allen) to play as well as vets like Saffold and Sullivan. But were they the heart of our OL problems?

In 2019 Andrew Whitworth had 13 penalties that were accepted. Included in those 13 penalties were 1 false start and 9 holding calls. In 2018, he had 7 penalties accepted, 4 False start; 3 holding (and in 2017 he had just 3 holding penalties). When a guy gets flagged for holding at three times his normal amount, that's a good indication he's getting beat often.

In 2018 Havenstein had 1 penalty accepted. In 2019 he had 8, including 4 false starts and 3 holding. In our first 3 losses the OL was flagged 11 times. Whitworth was called 6 times and Havenstein 3 times. Now I'm sure some folks could spin that perceived "regression" to the youngsters but I'm not so sure that's the right answer.

Whitworth has said he wants to come back with the Rams. The question is, how much money does he want? And is there a younger vet who might sign for the same amount? I love Andrew Whitworth, he was a huge part of the Rams turnaround under McVay. But is he as good as that OT we signed in 2017?

[snackdaddy]

For sure!!!! Very little cap space and 2 free agents off their roster. The question is do they want Whitworth and Blythe back in 2020? They have a group of young lineman who gained valuable experience in 2019. Like many fans have said, nobody expected the young guys (Noteboom, Allen) to play as well as vets like Saffold and Sullivan. But were they the heart of our OL problems?

In 2019 Andrew Whitworth had 13 penalties that were accepted. Included in those 13 penalties were 1 false start and 9 holding calls. In 2018, he had 7 penalties accepted, 4 False start; 3 holding (and in 2017 he had just 3 holding penalties). When a guy gets flagged for holding at three times his normal amount, that's a good indication he's getting beat often.

In 2018 Havenstein had 1 penalty accepted. In 2019 he had 8, including 4 false starts and 3 holding. In our first 3 losses the OL was flagged 11 times. Whitworth was called 6 times and Havenstein 3 times. Now I'm sure some folks could spin that perceived "regression" to the youngsters but I'm not so sure that's the right answer.

Whitworth has said he wants to come back with the Rams. The question is, how much money does he want? And is there a younger vet who might sign for the same amount? I love Andrew Whitworth, he was a huge part of the Rams turnaround under McVay. But is he as good as that OT we signed in 2017?

I think its clear Whitworth is not the guy they signed in 2017. Question is, can they do better? I'm not so sure. Teams don't let starting LT's walk unless they did not play well. In those cases we wouldn't want him anyway.

I'm in favor in bringing Big Whit back for one more season if the price is not too prohibitive. I'm also in favor of bringing Blythe back to play center. I thought he was much better at center than guard. And better than Allen. Problem is, Allen's under contract and comes cheap. I don't know what it will take for Blythe.

Its possible guys like Edwards, Evans and Shelton will be better with the added experience. Maybe Noteboom too. But I really would not be comfortable going into next season without at least one experienced vet somewhere on the line. Maybe Edwards and Evans will be fine. But at this point we don't know.

[PARAM]

But I really would not be comfortable going into next season without at least one experienced vet somewhere on the line. Maybe Edwards and Evans will be fine. But at this point we don't know.

Rob Havenstein is an experienced vet.....

I'm certainly not saying I don't want Whit back. It better not be at a premium salary though. If we're going to pay premium it better be a younger, talented LT.

But that's why guys like McVay, Snead and Demoff get the big bucks. It's their headache.

[snackdaddy]

But that's why guys like McVay, Snead and Demoff get the big bucks. It's their headache.

Yeah, all we can do is post things we would like to see happen. Maybe try and guess what they will do. It is their job to get it right. I've said before, if fans were in charge coaches and players would be fired every week. Some would be flogged.

[Hacksaw]

53 men = 1,000's of variables.
5 men = dozens. Can't pin it on just one thing...

[CanuckRightWinger]

So Hacksaw,
Going back to my Math memories....
maximum permutations for 5 units is:

5 factorial no? ie. 5 X 4 X 3 X 2 X 1 = 120 potential interfaces between 5 guys!

Good thing the Rams OL are only involved in blocking the opposing
D players across from them on a sportsfield....and not rocketing astronauts to the Moon, eh!!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Seriously though....McSnead have 10 OLinemen under Contract for 2020 as of now. All of them presently on the 2020 payroll....except Havenstein (entering his 6th season) are 2019 Rookies like Evans, Brewer, Nate Trewyn & Edwards...
or 2018 "vets" (Allen, Kolone, Noteboom, Demby and Austin Corbett). UM, that's alot of Yutes!! ....well at least their cheap, Corbett is the only one over $1M salarywise....and just barely.

The 3 presently unsigned Ram Free Agents are vets Whitworth (entering 15th season), Blythe (entering 5th season) and newbie yute ERFA Coleman Shelton. There are reports that Los Ramos may bring all three back for 2020.....Whit and Blythe out of need, Shelton because he'll be cheap.

All this "Natural OL Yutes Improvement By Osmosis" doesn't really mean much to me, BECAUSE THE RAMS OL YUTES ARE NOT OPERATING IN A VACUUM!!! IE. the SF, Seattle, and Arizona Defensive Yutes are also going to improve their respective unit efficiency thru their own:
weight room regimen
playbook/system familiarity
high level of coaching technique
dietary expertise of their in-house staffs
etc etc are they not???

Some guys here seem to feel the Rams have enough in-house OL talent and don't need to spend Draft picks or FA monie$ on OL talent. I strongly disagree. To me, our O skill positions, QB, RB, WR, TE are all manned (and paid) very well.
Where we need an injection of outside TALENT for the 2020 Ram O....
is on the OL.

On D, our CBs and Safeties are top drawer. DL and ILB need some outside talent to come in for sure....and maybe one ER/OLB as well. So, whilst our roster for 2020 may have a few holes.....they are not that complicated to identify.....
....and on O, it's the OL that needs to get shored up for 2020.

As always, JMO.

[PARAM]

Edwards will start. Evans.. I don't think will.
The big Q is whether they believe Hav can be brought back to 18 levels. If he can? With Edwards next to him? That could be a really, really nice right side.
I think Center and LG are the biggest question marks. Do the Rams do something to upgrade Center? If not, Blythe is functional. I see Corbett, Noteboom.. and maybe even Evans fighting it out for the LG spot.

I'm not an expert on OL play. But what did Evans do or not do in 7 starts to make you think he can't start in the NFL? Edwards in 10 starts? Though I remember his name was called quite often by the refs. Noteboom seemed to impress folks in 2018 in limited duty and he only had 6 starts on which to judge in 2019. Allen a little more, 9. Corbett 7. What did they do or not do?

Havenstein is key IMHO, as the only truly experienced vet on the team. So are either Blythe or Whitworth if they can sign them to a reasonable deal. But I certainly hope they don't over invest in Whitworth as he's got to be on the way out in the next year or two. They could certainly draft an OL in the 2nd...or the 3rd....or the 4th but what advantage would he offer over those other guys? I know a lot has changed in 20 years but Orlando Pace, #1 pick only started 9 games as a rookie. How complicated is McVay's offense for rookie lineman? What are the odds we draft somebody in any of those rounds and he excels as a rookie?

So it would appear, the mystery is what have the coaches seen both on the field and on tape? What is their opinion of the youngsters? We shall see soon enough and I'm fine with whatever direction they choose to take, so long as it makes the OL a legit strength. And to complicate things, what's up with Gurley? The Rams had 8 runs of 20 or more yards in 2019. Gurley had 5. Henderson, Woods and Cooks all had 1 each. How much of that can be put on the O line? Gurley had 5 on 223 carries. Those other three had 3 on 62 attempts. That equates to 1 every 44 carries for #30. Does he still have the burst? I hope so. I hope its all on the O line but I fear it's not.

[/zn/]

that equates to 1 every 44 carries for #30. Does he still have the burst? I hope so. I hope its all on the O line but I fear it's not.

Yeah I don;t think it;s all on the OL. TG is visibly not the same player---though he is still productive and is far from finished.

[PARAM]

I don't think Evans will start *next year*, I'm not saying he never will be. I thought Edwards played better than Evans. PFF seemed to agree. I'm no expert, just seemed better to me.
Noteboom, I think, was showing more before he got hurt. Now, I also liked Corbett and thought he showed some flashes.
I got no great insight, those were just my feels.

Thanks for the honest reply. Like I said, I'm no OL expert and like you, I have no great insight either. I only go by what the commentators say and show on replay.....or what I see during the game, like somebody whiffs on a block, gets blown up or blows somebody off the ball. IIRC, the youngsters were doing better towards the end of the year, particularly Evans and Edwards and that would figure after starting the last 7 games together as a unit. Ypc can tell something but as "the final answer", far from it. For 2019, that final 3.7 ypc average makes a great table pounder but if Gurley had just 2 more runs over 20 yards (say 25 each) over the course of the season, it would increase the ypc average by as much as 0.10 and three or four even more (0.2) !! Still not a glowing average....and certainly not a lot to be sure, but just two of those 20 yard plus runs ( of which he only had 5 all year ) would have had that number looking better. You get my point. Hell he had 11 runs of 20 or more behind GRob, Saffold, Barnes, Wichman and Havenstein in 2015....and we all know what we thought of that O line!!....In what was not a legit NFL offense, run by a marginal NFL quarterback!!! I think the youngsters get way too much of the blame. We had 4 different O line combinations over the first 10 games of the season. Remove the Dallas game (in which not a single player in a Rams uniform looked like he was ready to play) from the last 5 games of the season and that ypc average was 3.9 with those inexperienced youngsters blocking. Like I said, nothing to get excited about and numbers, though interesting, don't tell the whole story. But they "looked" better at the end of the season.....and yes, two of those games were against those lowly Arizona Cardinals, who held the vaunted 49ers run game to 2.7 ypc (135 on 50 carries) in a 3 point loss and a 10 point loss that SF had to score 13 points in the last 0:37 to win!