[aeneas1]

last year both blythe and havenstein ranked in the top 10 at their positions by pff as the rams rolled to 3rd in offensive scoring and the super bowl - blythe looked like a shrewd acquisition by snead while havenstein seemed to show why the rams paid him - havenstein also ranked in the top half of the league among tackles in 2017, and even higher among right tackles.

through week 6 they both rank near rock bottom by pff - havenstein ranks 61st (out of 73) among tackles while blythe ranks 69th (out of 76) among guards.

in one season they've gone from one of the top rg/rt tandems in the league to one of the worst.

so what's the deal? did they both suck last season too but pff just didn't notice it? did they both suck last season too but it didn't matter at all because the rams offense rolled anyway? were they on steroids last season?

or were they the same guys but simply put in a much better position to succeed by the play-calling?

[Haden]

Damn good question. My answer would be that Gurley's running and receiving made everything click because the defenses were occupied by him. Once Gurley got hurt, things went to shit.

[AvengerRam]

I think that relying on PFF's individual OL rankings is folly. An OL is a unit. If they're not working in unison and completing their assignments, the whole thing falls apart. So, while you can evaluate individuals (i.e. Whit isn't playing as well as last year, Saffold > Noteboom, etc.), in the end its a question of how the unit is performing.

You seem to be of the opinion that play calling is the bigger issue. While I agree that McVay's play calling has been questionable this year, I strongly feel that he's handcuffed by the inability to win the "battle of the trenches" on a consistent basis.

[SoCalRam78]

through week 6 they both rank near rock bottom by pff - havenstein ranks 61st (out of 73) among tackles while blythe ranks 69th (out of 76) among guards.

in one season they've gone from one of the top rg/rt tandems in the league to one of the worst.

so what's the deal? did they both suck last season too but pff just didn't notice it?

PFF is flawed, that's what it's shown. It's not an objective assessment of a player's worth, if it was, you wouldn't see this severe one year fluctuation. But people spit around PFF numbers like it's gospel.

[aeneas1]

I think that relying on PFF's individual OL rankings is folly. An OL is a unit. If they're not working in unison and completing their assignments, the whole thing falls apart. So, while you can evaluate individuals (i.e. Whit isn't playing as well as last year, Saffold > Noteboom, etc.), in the end its a question of how the unit is performing.

You seem to be of the opinion that play calling is the bigger issue. While I agree that McVay's play calling has been questionable this year, I strongly feel that he's handcuffed by the inability to win the "battle of the trenches" on a consistent basis.

not sure anyone is relying on pff, instead i'm simply pointing to one observer's take.

but throw out pff, use the eyeball test, does anyone think blythe and havenstein appear to be performing as well as they did last season? at the same level? in pass pro or run blocking? anyone? anyone at all? and if the eyeball test tells you they're not, what's the reason for their drop-off? they're just not as mentally or physically strong as last season? in hav's case, the last two seasons?

look at whitworth, older and slower to be sure, but the drop-off from last season is staggering, we're not talking losing a step or two, we're talking about falling off a cliff - whitworth has been an elite nfl left tackle for a decade+, by anyone's measure (including pff's), he was an all-pro / pro bowler just two seasons ago... so what's happened here? did father time finally take a toll, in a huge way, at coincidentally the same time blythe and havenstein happened to have big drop-offs too?

anyway, yes, i think both game-planning and play-calling have been the issue on offense, much more than the oline - imo the rams oline was average in 2017 and 2018, but scheme which placed the oline in a position to succeed plus talented skill position players made the offense hard to stop, and i'd say the same was true during the 1999-2001 gsot run.

watching the seattle game a 1-tech defender in a 6-1 look shot the a-gap before noteboom had a chance to react, the run was stuffed, it caused the booth guy to question what the rams were trying to do with their zone blocking scheme, and added there was no way noteboom had a chance to block the guy, they ran the play again in slo-mo... imo there's been a lot of this going on this season, plays called against defensive looks that don't put the oline in a position to succeed, something that's very new since mcvay's been in town imo.

[LARams_1963]

Whether we subscribe to PFF's rating matrix or not, bottom line is they were ranked by the SAME system both years.. One year in top 10, the next in the bottom. That's worrisome.

[R4L]

not sure anyone is relying on pff, instead i'm simply pointing to one observer's take.

but throw out pff, use the eyeball test, does anyone think blythe and havenstein appear to be performing as well as they did last season? at the same level? in pass pro or run blocking? anyone? anyone at all? and if the eyeball test tells you they're not, what's the reason for their drop-off? they're just not as mentally or physically strong as last season? in hav's case, the last two seasons?

look at whitworth, older and slower to be sure, but the drop-off from last season is staggering, we're not talking losing a step or two, we're talking about falling off a cliff - whitworth has been an elite nfl left tackle for a decade+, by anyone's measure (including pff's), he was an all-pro / pro bowler just two seasons ago... so what's happened here? did father time finally take a toll, in a huge way, at coincidentally the same time blythe and havenstein happened to have big drop-offs too?

anyway, yes, i think both game-planning and play-calling have been the issue on offense, much more than the oline - imo the rams oline was average in 2017 and 2018, but scheme which placed the oline in a position to succeed plus talented skill position players made the offense hard to stop, and i'd say the same was true during the 1999-2001 gsot run.

watching the seattle game a 1-tech defender in a 6-1 look shot the a-gap before noteboom had a chance to react, the run was stuffed, it caused the booth guy to question what the rams were trying to do with their zone blocking scheme, and added there was no way noteboom had a chance to block the guy, they ran the play again in slo-mo... imo there's been a lot of this going on this season, plays called against defensive looks that don't put the oline in a position to succeed, something that's very new since mcvay's been in town imo.

Pretty much agree with all of that. If the eye test says their playing shitty, then their playing shitty.

[aeneas1]

Damn good question. My answer would be that Gurley's running and receiving made everything click because the defenses were occupied by him. Once Gurley got hurt, things went to shit.

i think this might have something to do with it given gurley was such a huge part of the offense, so much of the offense seemed to be designed around what he brought to the table, his skillset, but i also think mcvay gets stumped by some looks, some game plans, given in the past the rams have struggled against some defenses even with a healthy gurley playing throughout.

anyway, it's ridiculous to think mcvay's offense should have routed every defense they've faced, past or present, because there are some damn good defenses out there, but my goodness it's demoralizing as hell to see the offense struggle so completely against some of the top defenses.

[AvengerRam]

I have not particularly noticed Blythe, one way or the other.

I do think Havenstein has been beaten quite a bit, and had his share of false start penalties.

[/zn/]

They were exposed at times last year too.

It's really simple. They don't play well against strong defensive fronts. And that's regardless of the system. It's just that this year, they have played against several of those early.