[aeneas1]

the guy's a shoe-in hall of famer, was an absolute iron man and stud, but couldn't help his team from fielding one of the worst offenses in nfl history... during the 11-year stretch thomas played for the browns (2007-2017) no team averaged fewer offensive points per game (16.1) and, all told, the browns averaged a 27th ranking in offensive scoring throughout thomas' 11-year career - equally grim, the browns posted a league-worst 48-128 record during thomas' time in cleveland while the browns (nor thomas) ever saw the postseason.

insult to injury, after thomas' retirement at the end of the 2017 season, the browns chose to replace him with (and protect their first overall qb pick with) undrafted rookie desmond harrison (8 games) and consensus nfl journeyman bust greg robinson (8 games) - the result? for the first time in over a decade the browns finished a season in the top half of the league in offensive scoring and are now a popular choice to make the postseason.

moral of the story?

joe thomas, browns offensive scoring rankings:

[dieterbrock]

moral of the story?

Don’t play for the Browns....

[aeneas1]

Don’t play for the Browns....

or a team that can't figure out the qb position!

[dieterbrock]

or a team that can't figure out the qb position!

It is crazy what a list of QB they have had in Cleveland who have started games for them and ultimately failed miserably. Now it’s not like the list is comprised of “can’t miss” prospects, “mostly WTF were they thinking?” kind of QB. But still in all, you’d think by dumb luck 1 of those stuffs would have worked out.

[aeneas1]

It is crazy what a list of QB they have had in Cleveland who have started games for them and ultimately failed miserably. Now it’s not like the list is comprised of “can’t miss” prospects, “mostly WTF were they thinking?” kind of QB. But still in all, you’d think by dumb luck 1 of those stuffs would have worked out.

ha ha, yeah, it's beyond crazy....

[Neil039]

Apparently he ruined a really good offense after his first season. What a selfish SOB!

[/zn/]

Well to be fair Robinson got the job when the guy ahead of him got benched. And after 5 years in the league, Robinson finally played fairly well though he is still on probation. He has not quite turned the corner to dependably and consistently solid but he is no longer the bust he was with the Rams. Slow learner--he did okay, but he's on a one year so hasn't completely established himself yet.

The opposite story is Whitworth. The Bengals decided he wasn't worth the money and decided to replace him. The Rams benefitted from this decision as we all know.

The Bengals replacements for AW, Cedric Ogbuehi (a 1st round pick), did not work out. They elected not to keep him. To replace him they traded for Cordy Glenn (giving up the 12th pick in the draft) but also in 2019 drafted Jonah Williams and moved Glenn to guard. Williams got injured and Glenn is back at LOT. Meanwhile as of right now Glenn is on concussion protocol. Glenn costs more than Whitworth.

So they have spent 3 1st round picks on LOT and really won't have Williams back until 2020. Glenn could hold up in 2019 but he has been banged up (he missed games last year too).

Whitworth meanwhile is entering his 3rd season with the Rams and is of course still doing well, so he has to be counted as worth the money. Of the 3 teams the one that is best off obviously is the Rams.

Teams with the other parts on offense do want good LOTs. Whitworth is an example of that.

The top 5 scoring offenses in 2018 all had both qbs and good LOTs, including Erik Fisher, Whitworth, Terron Armstead, and Anthony Castonzo. All of those teams benefit from having anything from good to top LOTS, but none of those teams would say they don't need a qb and a good offensive coach if they have the LOT.

The only 2018 top 5 offense in flux is New England, which let Trent Brown walk (he played well in 2018). But the only reason Brown played in 2018 is because their projected starter, 1st round pick Isaiah Wynn, got hurt. Wynn is back and the Patz also benefit from having one of the 2-3 best OL coaches in the league.

....

[AvengerRam]

I'd say you could probably do this sort of analysis with most positions, so I guess the moral of the story is...

Football is a team sport.

[/zn/]

I'd say you could probably do this sort of analysis with most positions, so I guess the moral of the story is...

Football is a team sport.

True.

The difference is, LOT is one of the positions that suffers from lack of bodies, like qb. Scarcity.

There are only so many college OTs who can play LOT consistently well in the NFL. It's like qb that way.

LOT is important, obviously (as the Rams have shown with Whitworth), but the whole issue is magnified by the fact that it's harder to get a good one.

Which btw means that if the Rams actually have landed 2 good LOT prospects in both NB and Edwards--using a 3rd and 5th round pick--then they are drafting about as well as they ever have, going back forever.

And for that matter AW counts here too--it is not that common to land a very good LOT in free agency either. As a rule, teams generally don't let good ones go.

....

[Elvis]

BTW, speaking of Joe Thomas, anyone following him on Twitter? He's going hard about the unfairness of the CBA and how players are not getting free market value for their services. I tend to agree but i have a few counter thoughts, the main one being:

The draft, CBA, restrictions on FA make the game better and add value to the league which in turn raises revenue and player salaries. So it might actually be in the players' best interest to have a game with those kinds of restrictions.