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 by max
5 months ago
 Total posts:   3877  
 Joined:  Jun 01 2015
United States of America   New York Metro
Superstar

/zn/ wrote:There's probably something to that, except the original that set this conversation going was the claim that DH ran mostly a gap scheme not a ZBS at Memphis. Waldman doesn't address that. In effect he changes the subject.

Just noting things. I don't have any bets down in this game.

....


Good point. In defense of Waldman, he didn’t write the article, and he’s not gonna throw his young guys under the bus on Twitter. Maybe in a private conversation he’s say more.

My bet is that he’ll follow up with them on that detail.

 by AvengerRam
5 months ago
 Total posts:   3557  
 Joined:  Oct 03 2017
Israel   Longwood, FL
Superstar

max wrote:Is there a link?


Is there a link?

What’s the theory here...that I made up the quotes?

If you want to read the whole article, I’m sure you could find it with a simple a Google search.

 by AvengerRam
5 months ago
 Total posts:   3557  
 Joined:  Oct 03 2017
Israel   Longwood, FL
Superstar

/zn/ wrote:The buzz around is that Memphis played a lot of ZBS.

The analyst, who actually analyzed plays, says no they emphasized a gap run scheme.

In comparison to DH & his coach and the play analyst, the people in this discussion have nothing to go on.

So they argue about whose word to take. Which is the same as saying, they don't really know.

Is there a possible situation where the analyst was selective and did not account for ZBS plays? Sure. Do we know if that's the case? No.

Is there a possible situation where a coach and player enthusiastically overstate how much ZBS they ran and just don't mention the gap run plays? Sure that can happen too. Do we know if that's the case? No.

What do we here know? Nothing.

Is it possible DH takes a little while to adapt? Sure. Is that LIKELY? I don't know, I doubt it. I don't think I have ever seen an instance where a talented back did not adapt to running in the NFL, regardless of the scheme. Usually backs who don't take off in the NFL regardless of expectations have physical issues with something like quickness or vision. None of that is true of DH.

So in a real way it's a non-issue. For example I am pretty sure Gurley was not in a predominantly ZBS scheme in college and did not play in one until Kromer came along, and he adapted to it just fine, in one summer.

So I don't worry.

BTW the way Waldman talks about Memphsis, they were a ZBS team.

....


Is this a serious post?

Coach/player himself vs. fantasy geek who analyzed a handful of preseason plays...and we’re all in the dark as to who we should rely on?

This may be the silliest thread ever.

 by max
5 months ago
 Total posts:   3877  
 Joined:  Jun 01 2015
United States of America   New York Metro
Superstar

AvengerRam wrote:Is there a link?

What’s the theory here...that I made up the quotes?

If you want to read the whole article, I’m sure you could find it with a simple a Google search.


I wanted the link so I could send it to Waldman. I found it, but it’s a pay site on OC Register. Of course I believe you, don’t be that way. I thought we trusted each other by now.

I did send it to Waldman and he DMed me back. It was a long DM, in a nutshell MW said he would look further into what Henderson ran at Memphis. He also said he’s found errors in PFF focus work before so he doesn’t take what they say as gospel either.

I expect to see DH play significant minutes in PS, so we’ll get more clarification on this very soon.

 by AvengerRam
5 months ago
 Total posts:   3557  
 Joined:  Oct 03 2017
Israel   Longwood, FL
Superstar

max wrote:I wanted the link so I could send it to Waldman. I found it, but it’s a pay site on OC Register. Of course I believe you, don’t be that way. I thought we trusted each other by now.


Sorry if I misread you.

 by /zn/
5 months ago
 Total posts:   4747  
 Joined:  Jun 28 2015
United States of America   Maine
Superstar

max wrote:I expect to see DH play significant minutes in PS, so we’ll get more clarification on this very soon.


I would just expect him to improve. As I said, we rarely see genuinely talented backs fail to adapt to the NFL, plus any good coach can just program in some plays he's used to anyway (which they won't do during the p-s).

In terms of Memphis it amounts to the same thing either way (though there is an accuracy in reporting issue). Either he ran a lot of gap system, in which case he isn't quite attuned to a pure NFL level ZBS yet, or in college he got by on sheer athletic superiority, in which case he needs to have more detail oriented technique in the NFL and probably more patience. Either way. (Though again if he didn't run a lot of gap in college then that's an accuracy in reporting issue.)

It just seems to me that the odd back who thrived in college but couldn't run in the pros, it was always a basic talent issue. As often as not they don't have NFL-level vision. I'm thinking of Trent Richardson. Backs who have the basic talent do adapt to the pros, it happens every year.

This is an example of the Rams using the pre-season games to accomplish something, even if the results are not entertaining to us. Get reps in for the young linemen and Henderson and then go over the film with them and send them back out again. Henderson gets some good reps running the ball and in executing protections. It's better than practice because it's against a live opponent. If they already thought he was "there" he wouldn't be playing in the pre-season.

 by max
5 months ago
 Total posts:   3877  
 Joined:  Jun 01 2015
United States of America   New York Metro
Superstar

/zn/ wrote:This is an example of the Rams using the pre-season games to accomplish something, even if the results are not entertaining to us. Get reps in for the young linemen and Henderson and then go over the film with them and send them back out again. Henderson gets some good reps running the ball and in executing protections. It's better than practice because it's against a live opponent. If they already thought he was "there" he wouldn't be playing in the pre-season.


Yeah, makes sense to me.

Btw, Waldman is bullish on Gurley. He added to Polian's story about Thurman Thomas with Marshawn Lynch. MW said Seattle did similar approach with ML, from the time he was 26, his prime years in Seattle. He also said he knows Gurley’s trainer and he rarely goes into as much public detail as he did recently. The changes would have been implemented whether he came off a 1,500 yard campaign or played thru injury.

 by /zn/
5 months ago
 Total posts:   4747  
 Joined:  Jun 28 2015
United States of America   Maine
Superstar

max wrote:Yeah, makes sense to me.

Btw, Waldman is bullish on Gurley. He added to Polian's story about Thurman Thomas with Marshawn Lynch. MW said Seattle did similar approach with ML, from the time he was 26, his prime years in Seattle. He also said he knows Gurley’s trainer and he rarely goes into as much public detail as he did recently. The changes would have been implemented whether he came off a 1,500 yard campaign or played thru injury.


I disagree with Waldman on Gaines. I know a lot about his methods because if you look him up, he has taken plenty of opportunities to talk about himself, his clients, his approach and so on. Yes he does go into detail publicly. I've even posted stuff from those other articles, all of which pre-date Gurley. He's a very dedicated self-promoter, meaning in the best sense.

He also stresses that all of his workouts are built around detailed medical knowledge--he has his own medical staff. They even build the methods for stretching before workouts around the individual player's medical history and medical needs. In terms of TG, it's the same with any back with an arthritic knee---and Gaines said that's the case with TG. There's things you can do to lessen the impact of that; the thing to avoid is stressing it to the point where you get the kind of pain/inflammation outburst they had in Sept. and then worse in Dec.

Unless Lynch had an arthritic knee prone to episodes where it flares up, there's really no valid comparison. I don't know Lynch's medical history without looking it up.

The MAIN point is that a back can play with knee issues, including an arthritic knee, and we've known that going back to Faulk. I've been saying that about TG all along.

...

 by max
5 months ago
 Total posts:   3877  
 Joined:  Jun 01 2015
United States of America   New York Metro
Superstar

/zn/ wrote:I disagree with Waldman on Gaines. I know a lot about his methods because if you look him up, he has taken plenty of opportunities to talk about himself, his clients, his approach and so on. Yes he does go into detail publicly. I've even posted stuff from those other articles, all of which pre-date Gurley. He's a very dedicated self-promoter, meaning in the best sense.

He also stresses that all of his workouts are built around detailed medical knowledge--he has his own medical staff. They even build the methods for stretching before workouts around the individual player's medical history and medical needs. In terms of TG, it's the same with any back with an arthritic knee---and Gaines said that's the case with TG. There's things you can do to lessen the impact of that; the thing to avoid is stressing it to the point where you get the kind of pain/inflammation outburst they had in Sept. and then worse in Dec.

Unless Lynch had an arthritic knee prone to episodes where it flares up, there's really no valid comparison. I don't know Lynch's medical history without looking it up.

The MAIN point is that a back can play with knee issues, including an arthritic knee, and we've known that going back to Faulk. I've been saying that about TG all along.

...


I don't know anything about Gaines, how many clients he has, or what he has said publicly about how many of them, so I cant comment either way on that subject.

I don't know Lynch's history either. Don't remember him having knee surgery. But who knows if he has arthritis. No one ever came out and said it. Actually, the Gurley situation is the first time I can remember when arthritis became a huge thing.

 by /zn/
5 months ago
 Total posts:   4747  
 Joined:  Jun 28 2015
United States of America   Maine
Superstar

max wrote:Actually, the Gurley situation is the first time I can remember when arthritis became a huge thing.


It did with Faulk, we just forget. They were very open about things then. Knees were not shrouded in mystery. Back then, that was hands, not knees. 8-)

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142 posts Jan 28 2020