[/zn/]

The "issue" described as "wear and tear" could be just that. Nothing more, nothing less. There doesn't have to be an injury. There doesn't have to be arthritis, though both are possibilities. I played sports into my 40's. Hard. Now my everyday job involves kneeling, jumping down from small heights, etc. I had knee surgery 5 years ago for a torn meniscus and MCL. But my knees were bad long before they got to that point. It's wear and tear plain and simple. 30-40 years of physical activity followed by making a living in a physical job. My knees still ache after the surgery.

Gurley has probably been playing football for over 20 years. He was probably always the bell cow for his teams, which means he got the most touches. It continued into college and now the NFL. His knees have wear and tear, along with an ACL repair. His knees could be in the beginning stages of arthritis. Because his knees have a lot of wear and tear on them. But make no mistake, nobody said the Rams lost the Superbowl because of Gurley and nobody has directly said what they're probably thinking. If Gurley was a healthy Todd Gurley the game probably doesn't end 13-3 Pats. So...…

The Rams being evasive. Or not forthcoming. Or not holding a press conference with doctors and charts and graphs and all the things that could "satisfy" the media and fans, might be nothing at all. Just an over reaction because everybody wants to hear exactly what's wrong with Todd Gurley. And it's simply wear and tear. There doesn't have to be "an event" or "an injury" or "arthritis". It could really just be he's got the knee(s) of a 35 year old.

Just 2 cents. This issue has nuances. Yeah it could be arthritis. As you say it's a possibility. (There's absolute no injury though, not by the NFL definition of injury. They didn't describe it as an injury, they did an MRI and there is no structural damage, and so on.) I am very careful to say we don't know, because we don't.

They could directly say it's not arthritis, though. And I am not sure how they say it was wear n tear in game 1. And if they saw after game 1 that he had the cumulative effects of previous wear and tear, then it would not have been a good idea to run him 213 times in the next 11 games (19.3 times a game). (I think only Elliott had more per game.) If it was already wear and tear in game 1, they should have scaled him back starting in game 2.

[PARAM]

And I am not sure how they say it was wear n tear in game 1.

Just my .02. I think you're entirely too hung up on "game 1". It was game 1 of the 2018 season. It was probably game #107 for Gurley (depending on how many high school games he played; 11 a year?). It was game #44 of his pro career. He played 30 in college and possibly 33 (or more) in high school.

And if they saw after game 1 that he had the cumulative effects of previous wear and tear, then it would not have been a good idea to run him 213 times in the next 11 games (19.3 times a game). (I think only Elliott had more per game.) If it was already wear and tear in game 1, they should have scaled him back starting in game 2.

Well that depends. Perhaps after limited action in game 2, his knee felt 100% better. They could have scaled him back more and the inflammation and pain may have arrived anyway. For that matter, they can scale him back in 2019 and the same thing can happen. That's wear and tear. You never know when it really going to rear it's ugly head.

[aeneas1]

Just my .02. I think you're entirely too hung up on "game 1".

which one would have to be if hell bent on believing (or wanting to prove) that gurley was "injured" throughout the year, throughout the postseason, thus confirming that the rams haven't been truthful about his health.

of course on planet earth, in 2018 gurley earned pro bowl and first-team all-pro honors, booked the highest yards per carry average of his career, booked the highest rushing td total of his career, averaged more rushing yards per start than 2017, and in the postseason shredded the cowboys for 115 yards on just 16 carries (7.9 avg) when he returned from his 2-game break.

but what about new orleans? what about the super bowl? asked a million times, and answered exactly the same a million times by the rams.

in other news, oswald acted alone.

[AvengerRam]

[/zn/]

Just my .02. I think you're entirely too hung up on "game 1". I.

How many backs have you ever heard of, no matter how many years they played, who get "wear and tear" issues in a knee in game 1? Issues that (according to McVay) are similar to the pain and inflammation he got in December, and in December they had to sit and replace him for a couple of games. Heck by 2012, his 7th in the league,Jackson had had way more carries than TG had by 2018--and a higher average per game too. Before the 1st game of 2012, SJ had 2128 carries in 103 games, with an avg. of 20.66 a game. And yet we don't see him having wear and tear issues in game 1 of 2012. By game 1 of 2018 Gurley had 786 carries in 43 games, way short of Jackson's mark, with an average of 18.2 (rounded up) per game. (Jackson had reached 43 games before the game 1 of 2008, and by that point he had 971 carries.)

I don't think I have heard of that happening to any back. Where after a certain number of years, they can feel the effects of "wear n tear" in the first game. And not just wear and tear, according to Coach game 1 was similar to what got him sat in December. So I haven't seen that from a back who didn't have previous surgery. You ever heard of that?

And of course, with TG, it's a surgical knee. So there's no such thing as normal wear and tear, there's wear and tear on a surgical knee (something we don't see with Jackson).

I don't think I am making too much out of that. I think you are dismissing it too quickly.

He had knee issues twice in 2018. That suggests something more than just ordinary wear and tear. It just does, it's inevitable that it would.

[AltiTude Ram]

Gurley didn't play the whole preseason. He was a bit sore after game 1. He went on to produce another MVP caliber season.

I'm thinking he was a bit rusty and not used to the NFL level hits he took in week 1.

Trying to relate game 1, after the all pro season, to any end of the season speculation is reaching.

Keep going though. . .maybe we need a fantasy poster forum.

[/zn/]

Gurley didn't play the whole preseason. He was a bit sore after game 1. He went on to produce another MVP caliber season.

I'm thinking he was a bit rusty and not used to the NFL level hits he took in week 1.

Trying to relate game 1, after the all pro season, to any end of the season speculation is reaching.

Keep going though. . .maybe we need a fantasy poster forum.

That's possible. But then, when a guy has a surgical knee and it gets sore in game one--and bad, as he says--it looks to me like there could be something going on with that surgical knee. Plus linking the 2 (September and December) is not speculation on my part. McVay himself directly said they were similar situations. One reason I link the two events is because McVay said that. But then again, we don't know what it is--we don't have enough info to say. It's just that there's certainly enough going on to wonder.

[PARAM]

Before the 1st game of 2012, SJ had 2128 carries in 103 games, with an avg. of 20.66 a game. And yet we don't see him having wear and tear issues in game 1 of 2012.

So I haven't seen that from a back who didn't have previous surgery. You ever heard of that? And of course, with TG, it's a surgical knee.

That suggests something more than just ordinary wear and tear. It just does, it's inevitable that it would.

You answered it with those first five sentences.

Nobody said "normal" wear and tear. It's wear and tear. And it doesn't have to be on a knee. It could be on a groin. Or an ankle. Or anything.

Gurley had 510 college carries in 30 games (17 / g).
Jackson had 743 carries in 37 games (20 / g).
Gurley had 786 carries in his first 3 years in the NFL (44 games/ 17.8 per game)
Jackson had 734 carries in his first 3 years in the NFL (45 games/ 16.3 per game)
Jackson had no knee surgery. Gurley had one after his last year in college.
So it's not surprising that Gurley has inflammation issues in year 4 and Jackson just had groin issues in year 4. And SJ missed more games (4) in his 4th year than Gurley. FWIW SJ also missed 4 games in his 5th year. He didn't have wear and tear?

That's possible. But then, when a guy has a surgical knee and it gets sore in game one--and bad, as he says--it looks to me like there could be something going on with that surgical knee. Plus linking the 2 (September and December) is not speculation on my part. McVay himself directly said they were similar situations. One reason I link the two events is because McVay said that. But then again, we don't know what it is--we don't have enough info to say. It's just that there's certainly enough going on to wonder.

But how "bad" was it really? He got 19 carries in game 2. Then 23, 17, 22 and 28 the next 4 games. I'd think if it was "bad", that wouldn't have been the case (the carries).

[/zn/]

You answered it with those first five sentences.

Nobody said "normal" wear and tear. It's wear and tear. And it doesn't have to be on a knee. It could be on a groin. Or an ankle. Or anything.

Gurley had 510 college carries in 30 games (17 / g).
Jackson had 743 carries in 37 games (20 / g).
Gurley had 786 carries in his first 3 years in the NFL (44 games/ 17.8 per game)
Jackson had 734 carries in his first 3 years in the NFL (45 games/ 16.3 per game)
Jackson had no knee surgery. Gurley had one after his last year in college.
So it's not surprising that Gurley has inflammation issues in year 4 and Jackson just had groin issues in year 4. And SJ missed more games in his 4th year than Gurley.

But it is a knee. It's a surgical knee. That flared up twice. There's normal wear and tear, and all sorts of minor injuries and just dings that happen. But when a surgical knee flares up twice, that is something worth noting. When the coach says the team has to be better at monitoring how he feels going forward (and he said that to Eisen), it adds to the things to notice. I would say though we don't know what it is, we absolutely do know that something has been going on with Gurley. Those details just add up a certain way, enough to say it's something (though not what it is). That doesn't mean he can't be productive--whatever it is, it flares up then calms down. And for all we know they're right, managing it better in the future may cut back on how much or how often it flares up.

Jackson had a groin because he got injured. It wasn't just wear and tear. That was a direct, actual injury--trauma from a physical situation (a partial tear)--and reported as such, and players get injured. The situation would be similar to Gurley in 2018 if Jackson's groin flared up in later years just from normal play.

But my point about Jackson was that years of carries never led him just to feel painful wear and tear in any game 1. (And that's not what happened with the groin tear--that's a physical game related trauma, an injury, which happens.) That point was made to stress that probably isn't what happened with Gurley either. Something in a surgical knee got aggravated in game 1. That's not just because he had 700 something carries in the previous 3 years. The condition of the surgical knee itself is likely part of what happened.

[AvengerRam]

@/zn/

Your deduction is not without logic, but it’s not necessarily accurate. That’s the problem with your posts, and why you get so much backlash...you present your analysis as if it’s the only plausible conclusion that can be drawn from the facts. It’s not.

So, no matter how self-assured or impatient you might be, you’re just going to have to wait with the rest of us to see how this plays out.