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 by /zn/
3 months ago
 Total posts:   4176  
 Joined:  Jun 28 2015
United States of America   Maine
Superstar

PARAM wrote:Just my .02. I think you're entirely too hung up on "game 1". I.


How many backs have you ever heard of, no matter how many years they played, who get "wear and tear" issues in a knee in game 1? Issues that (according to McVay) are similar to the pain and inflammation he got in December, and in December they had to sit and replace him for a couple of games. Heck by 2012, his 7th in the league,Jackson had had way more carries than TG had by 2018--and a higher average per game too. Before the 1st game of 2012, SJ had 2128 carries in 103 games, with an avg. of 20.66 a game. And yet we don't see him having wear and tear issues in game 1 of 2012. By game 1 of 2018 Gurley had 786 carries in 43 games, way short of Jackson's mark, with an average of 18.2 (rounded up) per game. (Jackson had reached 43 games before the game 1 of 2008, and by that point he had 971 carries.)

I don't think I have heard of that happening to any back. Where after a certain number of years, they can feel the effects of "wear n tear" in the first game. And not just wear and tear, according to Coach game 1 was similar to what got him sat in December. So I haven't seen that from a back who didn't have previous surgery. You ever heard of that?

And of course, with TG, it's a surgical knee. So there's no such thing as normal wear and tear, there's wear and tear on a surgical knee (something we don't see with Jackson).

I don't think I am making too much out of that. I think you are dismissing it too quickly.

He had knee issues twice in 2018. That suggests something more than just ordinary wear and tear. It just does, it's inevitable that it would.

 by AltiTude Ram
3 months ago
 Total posts:   1192  
 Joined:  Jul 09 2015
United States of America   Denver
Pro Bowl

Gurley didn't play the whole preseason. He was a bit sore after game 1. He went on to produce another MVP caliber season.

I'm thinking he was a bit rusty and not used to the NFL level hits he took in week 1.

Trying to relate game 1, after the all pro season, to any end of the season speculation is reaching.

Keep going though. . .maybe we need a fantasy poster forum. 😎

 by /zn/
3 months ago
 Total posts:   4176  
 Joined:  Jun 28 2015
United States of America   Maine
Superstar

AltiTude Ram wrote:Gurley didn't play the whole preseason. He was a bit sore after game 1. He went on to produce another MVP caliber season.

I'm thinking he was a bit rusty and not used to the NFL level hits he took in week 1.

Trying to relate game 1, after the all pro season, to any end of the season speculation is reaching.

Keep going though. . .maybe we need a fantasy poster forum. 😎


That's possible. But then, when a guy has a surgical knee and it gets sore in game one--and bad, as he says--it looks to me like there could be something going on with that surgical knee. Plus linking the 2 (September and December) is not speculation on my part. McVay himself directly said they were similar situations. One reason I link the two events is because McVay said that. But then again, we don't know what it is--we don't have enough info to say. It's just that there's certainly enough going on to wonder.

 by PARAM
3 months ago
 Total posts:   3558  
 Joined:  Jul 15 2015
Barbados   Just far enough North of Philadelphia
Superstar

/zn/ wrote:Before the 1st game of 2012, SJ had 2128 carries in 103 games, with an avg. of 20.66 a game. And yet we don't see him having wear and tear issues in game 1 of 2012.

So I haven't seen that from a back who didn't have previous surgery. You ever heard of that? And of course, with TG, it's a surgical knee.

That suggests something more than just ordinary wear and tear. It just does, it's inevitable that it would.


You answered it with those first five sentences.

Nobody said "normal" wear and tear. It's wear and tear. And it doesn't have to be on a knee. It could be on a groin. Or an ankle. Or anything.

Gurley had 510 college carries in 30 games (17 / g).
Jackson had 743 carries in 37 games (20 / g).
Gurley had 786 carries in his first 3 years in the NFL (44 games/ 17.8 per game)
Jackson had 734 carries in his first 3 years in the NFL (45 games/ 16.3 per game)
Jackson had no knee surgery. Gurley had one after his last year in college.
So it's not surprising that Gurley has inflammation issues in year 4 and Jackson just had groin issues in year 4. And SJ missed more games (4) in his 4th year than Gurley. FWIW SJ also missed 4 games in his 5th year. He didn't have wear and tear? :roll2:

zn wrote:That's possible. But then, when a guy has a surgical knee and it gets sore in game one--and bad, as he says--it looks to me like there could be something going on with that surgical knee. Plus linking the 2 (September and December) is not speculation on my part. McVay himself directly said they were similar situations. One reason I link the two events is because McVay said that. But then again, we don't know what it is--we don't have enough info to say. It's just that there's certainly enough going on to wonder.


But how "bad" was it really? He got 19 carries in game 2. Then 23, 17, 22 and 28 the next 4 games. I'd think if it was "bad", that wouldn't have been the case (the carries).

 by /zn/
3 months ago
 Total posts:   4176  
 Joined:  Jun 28 2015
United States of America   Maine
Superstar

PARAM wrote:You answered it with those first five sentences.

Nobody said "normal" wear and tear. It's wear and tear. And it doesn't have to be on a knee. It could be on a groin. Or an ankle. Or anything.

Gurley had 510 college carries in 30 games (17 / g).
Jackson had 743 carries in 37 games (20 / g).
Gurley had 786 carries in his first 3 years in the NFL (44 games/ 17.8 per game)
Jackson had 734 carries in his first 3 years in the NFL (45 games/ 16.3 per game)
Jackson had no knee surgery. Gurley had one after his last year in college.
So it's not surprising that Gurley has inflammation issues in year 4 and Jackson just had groin issues in year 4. And SJ missed more games in his 4th year than Gurley.


But it is a knee. It's a surgical knee. That flared up twice. There's normal wear and tear, and all sorts of minor injuries and just dings that happen. But when a surgical knee flares up twice, that is something worth noting. When the coach says the team has to be better at monitoring how he feels going forward (and he said that to Eisen), it adds to the things to notice. I would say though we don't know what it is, we absolutely do know that something has been going on with Gurley. Those details just add up a certain way, enough to say it's something (though not what it is). That doesn't mean he can't be productive--whatever it is, it flares up then calms down. And for all we know they're right, managing it better in the future may cut back on how much or how often it flares up.

Jackson had a groin because he got injured. It wasn't just wear and tear. That was a direct, actual injury--trauma from a physical situation (a partial tear)--and reported as such, and players get injured. The situation would be similar to Gurley in 2018 if Jackson's groin flared up in later years just from normal play.

But my point about Jackson was that years of carries never led him just to feel painful wear and tear in any game 1. (And that's not what happened with the groin tear--that's a physical game related trauma, an injury, which happens.) That point was made to stress that probably isn't what happened with Gurley either. Something in a surgical knee got aggravated in game 1. That's not just because he had 700 something carries in the previous 3 years. The condition of the surgical knee itself is likely part of what happened.

 by AvengerRam
3 months ago
 Total posts:   2590  
 Joined:  Oct 03 2017
Israel   Longwood, FL
RFU Fantasy Football Champ

@/zn/

Your deduction is not without logic, but it’s not necessarily accurate. That’s the problem with your posts, and why you get so much backlash...you present your analysis as if it’s the only plausible conclusion that can be drawn from the facts. It’s not.

So, no matter how self-assured or impatient you might be, you’re just going to have to wait with the rest of us to see how this plays out.

 by PARAM
3 months ago
 Total posts:   3558  
 Joined:  Jul 15 2015
Barbados   Just far enough North of Philadelphia
Superstar

AvengerRam wrote:@/zn/

Your deduction is not without logic, but it’s not necessarily accurate. That’s the problem with your posts, and why you get so much backlash...you present your analysis as if it’s the only plausible conclusion that can be drawn from the facts. It’s not.

So, no matter how self-assured or impatient you might be, you’re just going to have to wait with the rest of us to see how this plays out.


I just don't get the fascination with "game 1". As an NFL running back you take a beating. Every game. Every year. In sports it's a natural progression that your body goes downhill. You're playing a very serious collision sport. If you've already seriously injured something, chances are it's going to be an issue going forward. His knee has 'wear and tear' on it. It's been surgically repaired. It was a worry when he was drafted. It's always going to be a worry. Since obviously his body started wearing down his senior year of college.

In his interview today he said, "it feels okay and there was 'not really' any discussion about the possibility of an offseason procedure on his knee". So I guess that's why it's been suggested it's arthritic. It can't be fixed by surgery so arthritis is the answer. It's not a ligament tear or there would have been surgery. It's not a meniscus tear or there would have been surgery. No matter what it is, we (and the media) don't know but they'd be some huge fools if they knew what was wrong and didn't have a contingency plan. And they're ALL talking like it's no big deal.

 by PARAM
3 months ago
 Total posts:   3558  
 Joined:  Jul 15 2015
Barbados   Just far enough North of Philadelphia
Superstar

zn wrote:Jackson had a groin because he got injured. It wasn't just wear and tear. That was a direct, actual injury--trauma from a physical situation (a partial tear)--and reported as such, and players get injured. The situation would be similar to Gurley in 2018 if Jackson's groin flared up in later years just from normal play.


It was wear and tear. Cumulative. Wear and tear makes you more vulnerable to injury. It's a fact. Jackson played 11 seasons in the NFL and made all 16 games just 3 times. Wear and tear. A groin tear in 2007, missing 4 games (which flared up again in 2010, when he was held out of many practices). A right thigh muscle in 2008 (4 games). Lower back 2009. Right quad 2011. It's wear and tear. The result of years and years of punishing your body.

And as far as your game #1 fascination there's this:

On the Rams' first offensive play of the 2011 season, running back Steven Jackson took a handoff from Sam Bradford, burst through the middle and didn't stop until he had crossed the goal line.

That 47-yard touchdown gave the Rams a 7-0 lead over the Philadelphia Eagles and gave a sold out Edward Jones Dome crowd early hope that St. Louis might knock off the so-called "Dream Team."

That hope quickly took a 180-degree turn, however, as Jackson left the field for the locker room immediately after that play. He tried to return — rushing nine yards on the first play of the next series — but had to leave the game with a sore quadriceps.


He'd miss game 2 with the injury. Now how in the hell did that happen in week 1? How? Cumulative wear and tear.

LINK

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108 posts Jul 19 2019