[dieterbrock]

yeah, have to agree, especially in terms of the 1st and 2nd rounds, i.e. the cream of the crop rounds... heck, seems like just yesterday that more than a few rams fans and sports media talking heads moaned on and on about the rams mortgaged future thanks to the draft capital given up for goff, really crippled them no?

in the last 3 years (2016-2018) the rams have only taken 2 guys in the first two rounds, the fewest number among all teams, yet no team has more wins over the last two seasons than the rams.

conversely, in the last 3 years the browns have taken a whopping 10 guys in the top two rounds while the bucs have taken 9 - combined they've won 30% fewer games than the rams over the last two seasons and have failed to make the postseason.

So what I’m hearing is....
Fisher had how many top 1st round picks?
Back to back Rookie of year.
And what to show of it?
7 wins at best.
McVay hasn’t had a 1st rounder yet, 2 playoff appearance
Draft, free agency, cultivating talent on team... all of it depends on coaching and a culture
Thank god we have that now

[PARAM]

So what I’m hearing is....
Fisher had how many top 1st round picks?
Back to back Rookie of year.
And what to show of it?
7 wins at best.
McVay hasn’t had a 1st rounder yet, 2 playoff appearance
Draft, free agency, cultivating talent on team... all of it depends on coaching and a culture
Thank god we have that now

It seems it's not so much about coaching. It's about those first round picks, among some other things. For instance, as it's been pointed out, the Browns have been losing because they missed on a lot of first round picks but not so much because Hue Jackson was clueless. Or Mike Pettine, Rob Chudzinski, Pat Shurmur, Mangini, Crennel and Butch Davis either. Once they start winning it'll have a lot to do with hitting on those first rounders.

Interesting though, Danny Shelton won a Superbowl playing for New England. Cameron Irving is starting on the Chiefs OL (the 12-4 Chiefs). Mingo is starting for the Seahawks. Amazing some of those first round "misses" have found success elsewhere, while Pat Shurmur and Romeo Crennel are the only ex-Brown head coaches to get another head coaching gig......and neither did any better than they did in Cleveland.

Are those first round picks really that important? As you pointed out McVay has had none and taken a perennial loser to the playoffs AND Superbowl in his two years. From 2013-2017 the Patriots made two selections in the first round but somehow went to 5 AFC Championship Games as well as 3 Superbowls.

I'm not sure but I think a lot of 'it' has to do with coaching. Could it be there are guys who can get two first round picks annually and do nothing to develop them while other guys can eschew the first round and get more out of their lower picks?

[AvengerRam]

Obviously, it’s not merely a question of how many first and second round picks a team has, it’s about how well a team drafts overall. Hitting on later round picks can have a huge impact on a team’s success and sustainability.

[PARAM]

Obviously, it’s not merely a question of how many first and second round picks a team has, it’s about how well a team drafts overall. Hitting on later round picks can have a huge impact on a team’s success and sustainability.

Absolutely. It's draft success. Coaching. Health. Schedule. And sometimes "the bounces".

But draft success is not just picking talented players. It's also about developing those players and that's where coaching comes into the equation. You can look at some teams and say, "boy they always mess up the draft" (and the NY Jets were that model for years) but can we be sure it's the player and not the lack of ability on the coaching staff's part to develop those players? Or maybe the entire draft looks bad but in reality it might have been only half of them?

Teams like the Patriots (and lately the Rams) have proven you don't need to make a first round selection every year to have success. And there are teams like the Browns, the Rams (2006-2016), etc. who prove you can make multiple first round selections multiple times and still not field a winner. Like it's been said, "it's a lot of things" but if you don't have the coaching, you aren't going to win consistently.

[AvengerRam]

When I look at the Rams' recent drafts, I think of guys like John Johnson (3rd round), Cooper Kupp (3rd round), Cory Littleton (undrafted FA), John Franklin-Myers (4th round), Greg Zuerlein (6th round), Johnny Hekker (undrafted FA) as the real success stories. Finding guys like that is a lot more difficult than figuring out that guys like Goff, Gurley and Donald would be quality players.

This year's success could be impacted greatly by two mid-late round picks, Joe Noteboom and Brian Allen. If they prove to be draft "hits," that will be a major boost for the team.

[dieterbrock]

Cant make chicken salad out of chicken shit, but the difference between marginal NFL talent and serviceable NFL talent is largely due to coaching and scheme

[pmill66]

Drafting is important, developing is crucial. Need to hit on players drafted on day 3 to continue to be successful.

[Mr. Sparkle]

I would say with stadiums not allowing glass bottles anymore for safety reasons, a good draft is critical. Drinking beer out of plastic bottles doesn't do it for most people. Besides, then we get a cool plastic cup of your favorite team to bring home and never get used.

[aeneas1]

So what I’m hearing is....
Fisher had how many top 1st round picks?
Back to back Rookie of year.
And what to show of it?
7 wins at best.
McVay hasn’t had a 1st rounder yet, 2 playoff appearance
Draft, free agency, cultivating talent on team... all of it depends on coaching and a culture
Thank god we have that now

yeah, you can draft well until you're blue in the face (i've lost count of the number of a+ draft grades the browns have booked over the years), and you can amass a bunch of very high picks (see browns, bucs, colts, titans) but without a franchise qb and an x/o guy who knows how to put that qb in a position to succeed it's just spinning your wheels as far as i can tell.

i guess you can argue that the rams have drafted well in recent years (altho not many made those claims during the losing years it seems, go figure), but i'm not convinced that kupp, havenstein, reynolds, everett, etc. would be looked at as quality picks if fisher was still in town.

anyway, all teams will add draft picks to their rosters each and every year, it's not an either or proposition, but without the aforementioned franchise qb and capable hc in place, the importance of these draft picks in terms of impact and wins seems debatable.

one thing is for sure, it's nothing like the days when you could draft a bunch of eventual hall of famers and/or perennial all-pro / pro-bowlers and own them for a decade+.

[AvengerRam]

one thing is for sure, it's nothing like the days when you could draft a bunch of eventual hall of famers and/or perennial all-pro / pro-bowlers and own them for a decade+.

Ah... the good old days...

1977
Round 1: Bob Brudzinski
Round 2: Nolan Cromwell
Round 2: Billy Waddy
Round 3: Wendell Tyler
Round 4: Vince Ferragamo

1975
Round 1: Mike Fanning
Round 1: Dennis Harrah
Round 1: Doug France
Round 2: Monte Jackson
Round 4: Rod Perry
Round 7: Pat Haden

1971
Round 1: Isaiah Robertson
Round 1: Jack Youngblood
Round 3: Dave Elmendorf