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 by moklerman
3 weeks ago
 Total posts:   7044  
 Joined:  Apr 17 2015
United States of America   Bakersfield, CA
Hall of Fame

PARAM wrote:No, the team changes year to year. So let's look at just 2 years. The SB year of 2017 and the following year, 2018. Wentz had a damn good team around him....obviously....they won the SB. He was 10-2 while Foles was 6-1. The following year Wentz was 5-6, while Foles was 4-1. For the other 2 years plus of his career, Wentz is 16-18. I don't know, what does that say to you? It certainly doesn't say "Wentz is elite" to me.

FWIW, that former NFL QB pointed out more Wentz mistakes, than coaching mistakes. About his feet, he said, "they're probably working on that" and I took that to mean, it's obvious his footwork sucks so they're probably trying to correct it. He complained about some of the route designs but in the same breath said, "but Wentz is missing guys by yards". I guess we hear what we want to hear. You heard, "it's poor coaching, it's poor design, it's a little bit Wentz". I heard, "Wentz is off and his footwork needs coaching. Play design could be better".
I don't and have never attributed the team record to the QB. Never will.

JT said that he didn't like the shuffling that Wentz does but that he has to assume they're teaching him to do that. It's just an example of how and what they're possibly teaching and how it's not actually a good thing. Same thing with the route design. He clearly broke down the interception and showed a part of the problem was the design/coaching. Yes, he also pointed out that Wentz could have thrown the ball to a better spot which is why I said that these are all things adding up to poor results.

Coaches have to sometimes save a player from himself. I don't think the Eagles have done that with Wentz. I think McVay finally learned it with Goff. The Eagles need to apply the same type of thing and probably more so with Wentz and his injury issues. Get the ball out of his hands quickly, simplify his reads, put him in a position where he isn't faced with a high risk play.

When they don't, I don't consider it good coaching. But, if you tinker enough with a guy, he's going to be off his game. Which is what it seems is going on with Wentz. He is missing throws that he didn't used to miss. His timing is just a tad slow. His decision making isn't as sharp as it could be. His footwork is presumably being worked on. All of which may indeed need it but when play design is questionable, I'm hesitant to put it all on Wentz.

 by PARAM
3 weeks ago
 Total posts:   5653  
 Joined:  Jul 15 2015
Barbados   Just far enough North of Philadelphia
Hall of Fame

Moklerman wrote:I don't and have never attributed the team record to the QB. Never will.

JT said that he didn't like the shuffling that Wentz does but that he has to assume they're teaching him to do that. It's just an example of how and what they're possibly teaching and how it's not actually a good thing. Same thing with the route design. He clearly broke down the interception and showed a part of the problem was the design/coaching. Yes, he also pointed out that Wentz could have thrown the ball to a better spot which is why I said that these are all things adding up to poor results.

Coaches have to sometimes save a player from himself. I don't think the Eagles have done that with Wentz. I think McVay finally learned it with Goff. The Eagles need to apply the same type of thing and probably more so with Wentz and his injury issues. Get the ball out of his hands quickly, simplify his reads, put him in a position where he isn't faced with a high risk play.

When they don't, I don't consider it good coaching. But, if you tinker enough with a guy, he's going to be off his game. Which is what it seems is going on with Wentz. He is missing throws that he didn't used to miss. His timing is just a tad slow. His decision making isn't as sharp as it could be. His footwork is presumably being worked on. All of which may indeed need it but when play design is questionable, I'm hesitant to put it all on Wentz.



/zn/ wrote:


I think that was a pretty accurate account of what is going wrong with Wentz the first two weeks of the season. It's not coaching. It's not poor play design. It's not even poor decisions. It's improper execution. That is ALL on Wentz. But don't worry....your boy is going up against the Cincinnati Bengals today.....the perfect recipe for a total recovery.

 by moklerman
3 weeks ago
 Total posts:   7044  
 Joined:  Apr 17 2015
United States of America   Bakersfield, CA
Hall of Fame

PARAM wrote:I think that was a pretty accurate account of what is going wrong with Wentz the first two weeks of the season. It's not coaching. It's not poor play design. It's not even poor decisions. It's improper execution. That is ALL on Wentz. But don't worry....your boy is going up against the Cincinnati Bengals today.....the perfect recipe for a total recovery.
I think it far more likely and more rational to believe it is a combination of things. Carson likely needs work and they are trying to fix his issues but that has him in a place where he isn't even performing as well as he used to. Compound that with play designs that could be better and line play that has deteriorated and no Jeffrey in the lineup and it adds up to what the Eagles are dealing with.

The really sad thing is, no one is even saying that Wentz is better than Goff but that still isn't good enough. Wentz has to be terrible and Goff has to be great.

 by PARAM
3 weeks ago
 Total posts:   5653  
 Joined:  Jul 15 2015
Barbados   Just far enough North of Philadelphia
Hall of Fame

moklerman wrote:The really sad thing is, no one is even saying that Wentz is better than Goff


Really?

moklerman wrote:Wentz has to be terrible and Goff has to be great.


So far, that's about how it's been shaping up. But some folks want to use excuses like poor coaching, poor play design, footwork, terrible surrounding cast, put him on the Rams and Goff on the Eagles and they'd both be playing like the other is right now. That's what's sad.

 by /zn/
3 weeks ago
 Total posts:   5732  
 Joined:  Jun 28 2015
United States of America   Maine
Hall of Fame

CRamsFly wrote:Offensive play design - edge to the McVay/Rams
Some of this is speculation, but it seems the Rams have shown more creative play design over the past 4 years since McVay became the HC of the Rams. Pederson had some too


I think a lot of that was Reich. For example what has Foles done since Reich.

 by moklerman
3 weeks ago
 Total posts:   7044  
 Joined:  Apr 17 2015
United States of America   Bakersfield, CA
Hall of Fame

PARAM wrote:Really?



So far, that's about how it's been shaping up. But some folks want to use excuses like poor coaching, poor play design, footwork, terrible surrounding cast, put him on the Rams and Goff on the Eagles and they'd both be playing like the other is right now. That's what's sad.
Yes. Really.

So far? What, this season? One good game by Goff? What did all of last year look like? What do their career numbers look like? Oh wait, Wentz's good year doesn't count and we can only count Goff's first half of 2018, right?

Why is it impossible for people to have any sort of objectivity? I already said that Goff and Wentz are very close in terms of talent and production but that I'd take Goff since he never gets injured. Goff wins. If that isn't good enough of an answer for you then you've got issues that I can't help.

 by PARAM
3 weeks ago
 Total posts:   5653  
 Joined:  Jul 15 2015
Barbados   Just far enough North of Philadelphia
Hall of Fame

moklerman wrote:Yes. Really.

So far? What, this season? One good game by Goff? What did all of last year look like? What do their career numbers look like? Oh wait, Wentz's good year doesn't count and we can only count Goff's first half of 2018, right?

Why is it impossible for people to have any sort of objectivity? I already said that Goff and Wentz are very close in terms of talent and production but that I'd take Goff since he never gets injured. Goff wins. If that isn't good enough of an answer for you then you've got issues that I can't help.


Objectivity? Career numbers? How many 4,000 yard seasons has Wentz had? How many postseason wins does he have? Ever since the Rams got rid of your boy Sammy B., you've made it your job to piss on anythimg poaitive about the Rams. Here's a thought....it doesn't matter what Wentz does. It matters what Goff does.

 by moklerman
3 weeks ago
 Total posts:   7044  
 Joined:  Apr 17 2015
United States of America   Bakersfield, CA
Hall of Fame

PARAM wrote:Objectivity? Career numbers? How many 4,000 yard seasons has Wentz had? How many postseason wins does he have? Ever since the Rams got rid of your boy Sammy B., you've made it your job to piss on anythimg poaitive about the Rams. Here's a thought....it doesn't matter what Wentz does. It matters what Goff does.
Like I said, I said Goff was better and you're deranged about it.

 by CRamsFly
3 weeks ago
 Total posts:   74  
 Joined:  Sep 22 2020
United States of America   LA Coliseum
Practice Squad

Elvis wrote:


Can't believe it - PFF ranking Goff #3? :o

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73 posts Oct 21 2020