[CanuckRightWinger]

I dunno, I agree on alot of things with PA, but this Kromer thang is a conundrum. Maybe it's a "lost in translation" thingee?
.....okay PA is from Pennsylvania.....hmmm....does anybody here know the Amish words for "the Rams 2019 OLine played like shit and Kromer needs to pay for that....and our 2019 running game sucked too"??

#1. The "OverReaction" Label
Look...after HC McVay, the second most important/powerful Coach on the 2019 Los Ramos was DC Wade Philips. I called for his termination because I thought that the crappy production by his charges (many First Rounders) in 2019, fell far short of his legendary iconic NFL status. I called for Wade Philips termination, and....
FACTOID: Philips was terminated .....the number two guy after McVay…..gonzo!
Now, please explain how I "overreacted"!!
…..or maybe I misread....Did you mean McVay overreacted by firing Wade??

Now as for Aaron Kromer, AK was lower on the Rams hierarchical Coaching Totem Pole than Wade Philips ...…..so how again is it an "over-reaction" to lobby for Kromer's ouster when I was already right-on with my call for Wade's ouster (the Rams #2)....Wade, who had way more NFL rep than Kromer, AND a higher 2019 Rams rank than Kromer?


2. "They'll (Noteboom & Allen) be back in 2020 and probably starting"

I predict that Les Snead will spend considerable Draft and FA energy and treasure on the 2020 OLine roster. Snead will draft OL bodies early and often! I think McVay & Snead will be at the Combine in Indy watching OLinemen very very intently. I think that 2020 is a critical year for Les Snead. He has spent a lot of Draft treasure on these rentals like Talib, Peters and now Jalen Ramsey (who is not signed longterm BTW!! ). Kroenke cannot be pleased with Los Ramos missing the 2019 Playoffs. He wants a winner in his multi-Billion dollar Taj Mahal.....and if Les Snead cannot deliver a winner in 2020...….well, who knows....maybe Kroenke will overreact in your eyes in 12 months.....then you can label him!!!

3. "Evans, Edwards & Corbett acquitted themselves (& Kromer) quite well"?
For a PlayAction O scheme like McVay's, um...3.7 YPC rushing (30th Tie) in 2019 aint gonna cut it!! Sorry, but that's the tale-of-the-tape for Evans, Edwards, Corbett et al.

BTW, nowhere have I called for McVay's head.....nowhere!

[dieterbrock]

For a PlayAction O scheme like McVay's, um...3.7 YPC rushing (30th Tie) in 2019 aint gonna cut it!!

Not to throw salt in the wound, but that anemic 3.7 ypc was actually inflated by the affects of the WR screen. The 4 WR combined for 30 carries for 194 yards (6.47 ypc). Back that out of the rushing stats and the numbers looks even worse

[Elvis]

And looking at the 49ers dominant running game, who the eff are these backs? Talk about guys off the street. It’s akin to the Rams picking up the right guy for the scheme in CJ Anderson last year. They just happened across a bunch of whothefuckishe players.
Meanwhile the Rams dont have a single back over 3.9 ypc while last year the top runners were all over 4.9 ypc

And who was coaching the Oline last year when we ran all over Dallas in the playoffs?

I just don't get the Kromer is to blame for this year's offensive fall off but gets no credit for what it was the previous 2 years.

That position makes no sense to me.

When you start talking about what Kromer inherited you're making the Jeff Fisher argument. Look at what McVay and Kromer inherited!

In reality they came in and remade the offense, remade the Oline, remade the blocking scheme, the calls, the way they communicate with each other, the way they practice. Kromer was instrumental in all of that.

There was a story about how McVay wanted to learn and understand the specific Oline calls that Kromer was using, which is to say, the Oline is Kromer's.

I just don't understand how you can sell him short for what happened in '17 and '18. He was an integral part of it from day 1.

I find the Kromer is to blame for the '18 arguments as weak as the arguments that McVay has plateaued, been figured out, is a one trick pony, is done, etc. Or maybe it's Goff, he's been exposed? The offense certainly was worse in '19.

As far as i'm concerned none of these takes explain 2017 or 2018 so they're not very convincing...

[CanuckRightWinger]

Well, I would counter with this Elvis:

Did Wade Phillips D system not help take us from 4-12 in 2016 to lofty 12-4 in 2017?
Did Wade's Defense and players not help take us to SB LIII in 2018??
But in 2019, Wade Phillips, whose NFL resume dwarfs Kromer's, was let go by Los Ramos because of lousy production in 2019!

Did Wade Phillips not
"remake the Rams D, remade the defensive schemes, the calls, the way they communicate with each other, the way they practice. Was Wade not instrumental in all of that?" ME: Um, he even switched us to a 3-4!!
Was Wade "sold short of what he did in 2017 and 2018"?
Was Wade not "an integral part of it (too) from Day 1"??

Elvis, are you saying Wade Phillips' termination was unjust?
Did Sean McVay overreact?

[dieterbrock]

And who was coaching the Oline last year when we ran all over Dallas in the playoffs?

I just don't get the Kromer is to blame for this year's offensive fall off but gets no credit for what it was the previous 2 years.

That position makes no sense to me.

When you start talking about what Kromer inherited you're making the Jeff Fisher argument. Look at what McVay and Kromer inherited!

In reality they came in and remade the offense, remade the Oline, remade the blocking scheme, the calls, the way they communicate with each other, the way they practice. Kromer was instrumental in all of that.

There was a story about how McVay wanted to learn and understand the specific Oline calls that Kromer was using, which is to say, the Oline is Kromer's.

I just don't understand how you can sell him short for what happened in '17 and '18. He was an integral part of it from day 1.

I find the Kromer is to blame for the '18 arguments as weak as the arguments that McVay has plateaued, been figured out, is a one trick pony, is done, etc. Or maybe it's Goff, he's been exposed? The offense certainly was worse in '19.

As far as i'm concerned none of these takes explain 2017 or 2018 so they're not very convincing...

I think Jeff Fisher/Boudreau would have had more success if they had Whit & Sullivan on their line in 2016 versus what they had to work with. Glad they didn’t of course so things could go the way they did.
So again, my take is simple. Kromer was handed a pretty good hand, then his Starting line played in every game for 17 & 18. Thats an incredibly fortunate situation for any coach.
So forward to 19 and now it’s not a perfect set up and that is when you expect the coaching to rise to the occasion. The o-line and running game was sub standard. Sure it’s fair that under the circumstances it is reasonable that there would be a set back, but not that huge of a drop off. Outside of the 2016 fiasco, even Fishers teams ran the ball more successfully.
So we’ll see, it’s a new year and Kromer is still here. Oline makes a comeback, and he’s a hero. It doesn’t, and he’ll be gone.

Reality is this, plain and simple. McVay has turned over just about every coach on his staff, and Kromer is pretty much the only 1 who’s still here. That definitely means a lot and should breed some more confidence that things will turn around.

[PARAM]

What happened to the theory (in the realm of opponents have figured out McVay's offense) defenses have put 6 guys on the line and it's made it difficult for the Rams to run their bread and butter? Is that ALL on Kromer? OR the playcalling of McVay to take advantage of that defensive formation or continually try to run into it? Is Kromer supposed to figure out how to block 6 guys with 5 offensive lineman and a tight end? Or is it a question of the running backs not making that "one cut" into a hole that may not be as big as 2107-2018? I dunno. Just asking.

On Wade Phillips having turned around our defense in 2017 and 2018, why is there no mantra "well he inherited Aaron Donald" like Kromer inherited Whitworth & Co. ?

@Canuck, you may have misunderstood my statement about "over reaction". I used "over reaction" in terms of seeing a lot of things 'seemingly' wrong with the team and calling for the heads of every position group who were subpar in 2019. I never said calling for Wade's head as an over reaction. In fact, I would submit, as bad as the offense was in 2019, it was the defense that cost us down the stretch when we were struggling to gain a playoff spot.

And I didn't say you were calling for McVay's head. I attempted to explain, if we're going to call for every coach who's charges under performed in 2019, it would have been Phillips, McVay and Kromer....in that order. The defense was extremely inconsistent (completely absent at times), the offense was amemic (most of the time) and the OL wasn't good (although they did suffer a host of injuries....Noteboom, Allen and Havenstein). But of course it would be ridiculous to call for McVay's head, despite his offense remaining anemic most of the season. See the over reaction is to put every group (OL, LB, DB, etc) under the microscope and call for the heads of the coach who was responsible for each group. Obviously a misread on your part as I know you wouldn't put words in my mouth.

On Snead and McVay going OL early and often, we better make some trades cause we ain't picking very early. I agree, I do expect them to draft an OL and perhaps sign one or two. But that doesn't mean they don't expect Noteboom or Allen to be a player, just that they're going to need a replacement for Whitworth's roster spot (and any other OL who they don't resign).

Like I said in an earlier post, Wade's D cost us a playoff spot during the last 8 games. Despite Kromer's charges not playing like the 2017-18 Rams, the offense produced enough to win 4 of the other 5 games down the stretch.

Note: Despite the anemic offense and the sub par O line, the offense scored 42 TDs which tied for 13th in the league. Not surprisingly, 11 of those 12 teams ahead of us made the postseason. And still, it was the second half of the season defense who shit the bed in games vs Baltimore (forgiven as most defenses did that anyway), Dallas and SF at the end when it counted most.

[CanuckRightWinger]

Thanks for your post PA .....glad we understand each other now, and we never had to get that Amish translator either!

Seriously, I was starting to get the feeling that most here at RFU was viewing me as some Grim Reaper For Coaches, who is only happy when there's blood on the carpet ........not true!

I just wanna improve the team where we are relevant in NFL conversations....and to me, that means NFL PostSeason relevancy!

Also, for the record, I only called for Wade and Kromer to be replaced for 2020.....I never posted that I wanted John Fassel, Skip Peete, nor that Fisch guy to be cashiered.....those are McVay's own moves, and were mild surprises to me.....especially Fassel.

Back to the OP....I had kinda accepted that if Kromer hadn't been canned in that first wave of Wade, Bones, Peete et al terminations....then we were probably stuck with TheLawnChairCollector for 2020. BUT.....
who knew that the best Rams OLineman of the McVay Era , a former ProBowler and solid Rams Team Captain/Rams NFL ManOfTheYear Candidate/ solid citizen Whitworth would go on syndicated radio and announce that
"it was unreasonable to expect Boom and Allen to perform at the levels of Saffold and Sully."

So, while not totally throwing his OLine Coach under the bus, Whit did say that the expectation was unreasonable (ie. OLine Coach miscalculation!).........so for me, that AK shade was reason enough to:

RELAUNCH THE KROMER IMPEACHMENT HEARINGS!!!

Seriously, I have posted befor that I "have faith" in McVay and Snead.....so if they think that keeping Kromer helps Los Ramos' Playoff chances for 2020, then I say....well it's their jobs that are the ones that depend on making good decisions for Kroenke's Team, so like alot of smart guys around here have posted....
I guess we shall see!

Thanks again for splaining everything PA! Appreciate it!

[Elvis]

Well, I would counter with this Elvis:

Did Wade Phillips D system not help take us from 4-12 in 2016 to lofty 12-4 in 2017?
Did Wade's Defense and players not help take us to SB LIII in 2018??
But in 2019, Wade Phillips, whose NFL resume dwarfs Kromer's, was let go by Los Ramos because of lousy production in 2019!

Did Wade Phillips not
"remake the Rams D, remade the defensive schemes, the calls, the way they communicate with each other, the way they practice. Was Wade not instrumental in all of that?" ME: Um, he even switched us to a 3-4!!
Was Wade "sold short of what he did in 2017 and 2018"?
Was Wade not "an integral part of it (too) from Day 1"??

Elvis, are you saying Wade Phillips' termination was unjust?
Did Sean McVay overreact?

If Wade were still here i'd be fine with it. He's a first rate DC who helped the Rams go to the SB last year.

OTOH, i don't think his defenses were really any better than the Gregg Williams defenses we had with Fisher.

You certainly can't say that about the offense or Oline play...

[CanuckRightWinger]

No argument from me Elvis on Rams OLine of 2017 being superior to Los Ramos OLine of 2016.......BUT,

just as ralphldeiterbrock accurately retorted above,

Greg VaporLock Robinson was no Andrew PerennialProBowler Whitworth and Tim JAG Barnes was no Sully SmartSignals Sullivan eh!

So Fisher/Boudreau were definitely at more than just a bit of a disadvantage!

[Elvis]

No argument from me Elvis on Rams OLine of 2017 being superior to Los Ramos OLine of 2016.......BUT,

just as ralphldeiterbrock accurately retorted above,

Greg VaporLock Robinson was no Andrew PerennialProBowler Whitworth and Tim JAG Barnes was no Sully SmartSignals Sullivan eh!

So Fisher/Boudreau were definitely at more than just a bit of a disadvantage!

Fisher/Boudreau drafted Grob with the 2nd pick in the draft. Kromer worked with him during OTAs and decided he wasn't a good fit for what he wanted to do so we traded him. That's not dumb luck, that's the difference between smart coaches and dumb ones.

And this is the crux of my disagreement with your take on Kromer. You say he's a snake oil salesman or at least a voice in the room when it came to moving on from Saffold and Sullivan.

But he was also a voice in the room when we moved on from GRob, when we signed Sullivan and Blythe and Corbett, when we cut Tim Barnes.

If you're gonna blame Kromer for his part in bad moves you have to credit him for his role in the good ones.

Overall, for the last 3 years the offense (and Oline) has been superb compared to where we were the previous decade.

I say give Kromer his due.

That doesn't mean i think he's indispensable (i only feel that way about McVay). If we'd swapped AK for Bill Callahan i'd have been pretty jacked about that.

There are plenty of coaching combinations that can work and Kromer, obviously, is part of a combination that can work really well, because it has...