[/zn/]

My response was if it is a fact Kromer gave his blessing on the line as constructed which the brass acted on... I agree with the rest of you assessment.

I know. I was just going with the topic. Your post was just like a platform to jump off of, plus I was disagreeing a bit with the poster you responded to.

[/zn/]

Unless it comes out that Kromer makes all the decisions and can pick who he wants, I will be skeptical on that. I believe the final decision is well above his pay grade. He coaches the players they give him

Well the Rams draft process is well-documented and that stuff reveals that Kromer has a huge input with OL picks. No surprise, Hanifan and Boudreau did too---as a rule that's the case with OL coaches generally. They are a big part of drafting the linemen they will work with.

[PARAM]

Well the Rams draft process is well-documented and that stuff reveals that Kromer has a huge input with OL picks. No surprise, Hanifan and Boudreau did too---as a rule that's the case with OL coaches generally. They are a big part of drafting the linemen they will work with.

That kinda figures as it should and probably with other position coaches too. The DL coach might have huge input when they're looking at defensive lineman. The DB coach might have huge input when they're looking at DBs. Of course, that's depending on who the assistant coach happens to be.

And still, I don't think anybody can be sure Kromer has actually fooked up. Is Noteboom a legit NFL lineman? Allen? Evans? Edwards? Corbett? I don't think anybody can say with certainty that they are or aren't. There's been such a small sample size.

[/zn/]

That kinda figures as it should and probably with other position coaches too. The DL coach might have huge input when they're looking at defensive lineman. The DB coach might have huge input when they're looking at DBs. Of course, that's depending on who the assistant coach happens to be.

And still, I don't think anybody can be sure Kromer has actually fooked up. Is Noteboom a legit NFL lineman? Allen? Evans? Edwards? Corbett? I don't think anybody can say with certainty that they are or aren't. There's been such a small sample size.

OL coaches, I think, get even more input because they have to coach up 8 to 10 guys and have them all on the same page, and the players have to fit his techniques and system, a requirement that is multiplied by the fact that you're coordinating 5 starters. In a way the OL coach is closer to being a coordinator in his own right, so while the defensive coordinator can speak for what he wants in a DL or LB etc and essentially the position coaches are an extension of him, that's not really the case with an OL coach. So we don't hear as much across time about other position coaches having anywhere near the same level and degree of input, though of course they all have some. There were stories going back to Hanifan about his level of involvement. Same with Kromer.

In terms of you saying that no one can declare absolutely that Kromer F'ed up--well yeah. Agree. It's not at all clear that one half year of struggle is entirely on him. Same with Hanifan. Rams OL was a mess in 98 (in fact the OL changed in 99) but then in 99 he was who he always was and the OL cohered. Like I said, you can add 2 newbies on the inside if both OTs hold up, and they absolutely did not (though AW got it back together during the season). Your OL doesn't play pretty well with 3 injury replacements (2 of them rookies) if your OL coach doesn't cut it.

....

[Elvis]

Doesn't Kromer get credit for 2017 and 2018? Didn't he have input in signing Whitworth and Sullivan, cutting Grob, or is it only the bad stuff?

[CanuckRightWinger]

Speaking of "sample size".....

Aaron AlliedVanLinesPlatinumPointsMember Kromer has a 3 season sample size with Los Ramos, 2017, 2018, and 2019.....mathematically speaking, right Pennsylvania?.

In his 2017 Season, Kromer inherited a veteran OLine, Whitworth, Saffold, Sullivan, Jamon Brown and Havenstein.

In 2018, with Jamon Brown suspended, Kromer coached up former Colts vet Austin Blythe to take Jamon Brown's RG spot. Wow....what a Miracle Worker!.....until the SBLIII thingee in Altanta!

Then, in 2019, as Rams OLine Coach, Kromer's OLine stunk. Goff took more hits than George Chuvalo took from Ali in 1966!

As Rams Run CoOrdinator, Kromer's running game also stunk! Think back to our 1.6 YPC in Dallas....or the 49er GoalLine Stand in SF Game#1 in LA.
….and thanks to the above Kromer stinkers, our beloved Rams missed the NFL Playoffs in Kromer's 3rd Season....so by my math, in Kromer's Sample Size....Kromer fails in 33.3% of his sample size (1 outa 3)………. at the very least.

BUT...
On closer examination, Kromer is 100% successful when he inherits a Rams veteran OLine that's already assembled for him, ie. 2017 & 2018……

BUT, when he has to replace a couple of Los Ramos bodies with his own Ram OLine picks, well then Aaron ShuffledOffFromBuffalo Kromer fails 100% of the time.

Paraphrasing the old Seinfeld Car Rental scene routine:

KROMER: Listen....I know how to run the Rams OLine successfully!!
ME: No.....I DON'T think you DO!!! See, you're good at INHERITING the solid OLine already assembled for you...…
You're just not very good at tweaking the OLine when the inheriting part is over!

[/zn/]

Doesn't Kromer get credit for 2017 and 2018? Didn't he have input in signing Whitworth and Sullivan, cutting Grob, or is it only the bad stuff?

Yeah. Saffold had his best years as a Ram w/ AK. The line was good in 2017 even with Brown at OG, and then good for most of 2018 with Blythe, at least IMO until Sullivan became a liability against better defenses, and that was age. Hav had 2 good years and you don't sign a left OT like AW without the OL coach being involved in it. Then there's the stuff I already mentioned about the OL becoming more solid down the stretch in 2019 in spite of starting 2 rookies.

Plus there's this. A good OL coach is an absolute necessity for a good offense. If AK is just not up to snuff yet McV kept him anyway, that's a pretty negligent thing to do.

There's a lot to be done with the OL in 2020 and if AK is an issue yet McV is going ahead with him, that would not speak well of McV. The Rams are going through a big coaching transition anyway so there was no reason to keep AK at this point if he were an issue.

...

[dieterbrock]

Doesn't Kromer get credit for 2017 and 2018? Didn't he have input in signing Whitworth and Sullivan, cutting Grob, or is it only the bad stuff?

Whitworth chose the Rams IIRC because he was really tight with Jay Gruden from their time in Cincy and he backed McVay, and Sullivan played with McVay in Washington so IMO, no Kromer doesn’t get credit for them.
Let’s face it, Kromer was handed a pretty solid hand in 2017. 2 Free agent signings of former all pro LT & C, Hav showed promise as a rook, as did Jamon Brown and of course a solid Saffold. Then they go ahead and start every game. But that’s where the issues with Kromer begin, Brown regressed tremendously, ended up playing solid elsewhere. Noteboom is still incomplete, Allen meh, Demby a waste etc, etc.
Sure the line looked great with everyone healthy and firing on all cylinders. But again, just my opinion, the OLine coach shows his mettle when facing adversity, and the oline hasn’t showed that at all.
So we’ll see how it goes, definitely showed promise at the end of the year. But I question why it took him so long to have the right guys playing in the right spots

[Elvis]

In his 2017 Season, Kromer inherited a veteran OLine, Whitworth, Saffold, Sullivan, Jamon Brown and Havenstein.

He didn't inherit Whitworth or Sullivan.

GRob was our left tack when Kromer was hired. He worked with him during the off season and then we traded Grob to the Lions. That's when we signed Whitworth. All while Kromer was a member of the staff and presumably had substantial input into Oline personnel.

Same with Sullivan, we didn't sign him until Kromer had been on board and actively coaching our players for some time. In fact we made a move on Buffalo's Ryan Groy before signing Sullivan.

You can be sure Kromer was involved in shaping the 2017 Oline.

Look how seamless the transition from Brown to Blythe was. Havenstein had his best two years under Kromer.

If you're gonna blame Kromer for whatever personnel missteps you think we've made doesn't he get credit for the good moves?

I mean, he either had a voice in the moves or he didn't.

[PARAM]

But that’s where the issues with Kromer begin, Brown regressed tremendously, ended up playing solid elsewhere. Noteboom is still incomplete, Allen meh, Demby a waste etc, etc.
Sure the line looked great with everyone healthy and firing on all cylinders. But again, just my opinion, the OLine coach shows his mettle when facing adversity, and the oline hasn’t showed that at all.
So we’ll see how it goes, definitely showed promise at the end of the year. But I question why it took him so long to have the right guys playing in the right spots

Brown started all 16 games in 2017 under Kromer. Then he was suspended for the first two weeks of 2018 and never got his job back. He was released at the end of October and claimed right away by the Giants. Was it that Kromer caused him to regress or because of the suspension and the fact he was a free agent at years end? Sure he started 8 games for the Giants but then signed with Atlanta where he didn't get the starting job until rookie Chris Lindstrom was injured. I don't think Kromer deserves any blame for Brown. The rest? Who knows.

What credit he deserves or what blame is up for discussion. I agree an OL coach earns his money when facing adversity but isn't that what happened this year? He utilized Blythe to replace Brown (in 2018) and then Blythe turned out to be pretty versatile, replacing Allen this year. Evans, Edwards and Corbett seemed to improve as their playing time increased. Noteboom? Allen? Who knows if they are the real deal?

We're going to find out but I'd think if he deserved blame or wasn't a good OL coach, he'd have been out the door at the end of this year. He's got to earn his money this year for sure, if we're going to have a good season. Some think he's no good. Some think he is. We'll see because he still won't have Saffold or Sullivan this year, probably not Whitworth either.